Topic started by vijay on Fri Dec 17 00:29:10 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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How did old Tamil people calculated the time? I heard about the word "Naazhi", Ganam etc
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Responses:
- From: Vanchinathan (@ 203.197.139.30)
on: Fri Dec 17 05:06:05
Interesting question. Hope someone will be able to give the details. here is what I know.
naazi is the deformed version of naazhikai, 24 minutes.
One solar day is 30 naazikai of daytime plus another 30 naazikai of night time.
1 mukUrththam = 3+ 3/4 naazikai = 90 minutes
(the standard duration for the main events of a marriage ceremony)
2 mukUrththam = 1 yaamam. (but normally used only for nights)
But still I don't know what 'gadgets' were used for reckoning time.
But the cliches throw in some light on what could have been used as rough indicator of time.
'kOzi kUvum nEram" "aslo "saamak kOzi kUvuthal"
"veLLi muLaiththidum vELai" (though this depends hightly on the month of the year)
"ucci veyyil nEram"
"andhi saayum nEram"
Fortunately the fluctuation from summer to winter is not wide in thamizakam due to its proximity to equator.
- From: Era.Murugan (@ 131.241.26.63)
on: Fri Dec 17 14:40:46
Thanks for the info Vaanchi. I remember reading in Thiruppavai, "VeLLi ezhundhu Viyaazham URangitRu". Is there any interpratation for that?
Era.Murugan
- From: Chandra (@ fw-atlanta.atlanta.usweb.com)
on: Fri Dec 17 15:31:22
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- From: Vanchi (@ isdn1.pppmad.vsnl.net.in)
on: Fri Dec 17 23:48:26
Chandra: Great. Has any 'uraiyaasiriyar' attempted to explain the lines of mullaippaattu you've quoted above.
'anthi manthaarai' is a lovely small flower of colour magenta (women call that vaadaa malli colour) that blooms at about 5 pm.
In the story of akalikai, we learn how Indra duped
Gauthama(have I got the name right?) making him get up at midnight. Gauthama is supposed to have noticed the flowers' stage of blooming or some such natural event and guessed that it is not 4am or so. Even if I tend to discount whole of ramayana as a fiction, this tells us that the author of such a fiction knew that one can arrive at the time of the day (or night) by observing nature)
Actually I'd not call it a great talent. people of older centuries living close to nature naturally learn to use nature to guide them.
The more gadgets available the less skill you develope (except the skill of using the gadget)
Doctors (of MBBS kind) of 20 years ago could diagnose many things with stethoscopes, examining the tongue and by feeling with their hands.
Now doctors indiscriminately recommend scanning (for pregnancy related cases).
I've talked to some fishermen in Thiruvanmiyur during my brief invlovement in aRivoLi movement
and learnt that they could go to sea 30 or 40 km
in their kattumaram and come back without the aid of any instruemnts or light even during cloudy nights.
I read somewhere that South Pacific Island natives
can travel in their simple boats and reach another island some thousands of kilometres away.
It is very much amusing to notice people in madras
during marriage rites asking the saasthri which direction is east (not withstanding the morning sun that must be glaring them at that times)
- From: Vanchi (@ isdn1.pppmad.vsnl.net.in)
on: Sat Dec 18 08:13:12
Chandra & Murugan:
veLLi = Venus (sukkiran?)
viyaazam = Jupiter (pragaspathi, Guru)
Strangely veLLi is referred to only as 'vidi veLLi' though it can appear in the evening sky too .
I don't know enough of astrnomy to carry out the calculation for arriving at aaNdaaL's time from that astrnomical remark in thiruppaavai. But it should be a fairly elementary problem for one who has had a one-semester B.Sc. level course in astronomy (the growth of Information technology and Statistics in this century have driven out Astronomy from BSc curriculum in most Universities.. I am a victim of such a thing.
And was embarrassed by the lines in Bharathiyaar
"kaNitham panniraNdaandu payilvar pin
kaarkoL vaan thErnthilar .." in his autobiography about British education system.
Another tragedy in those days was Astronomy in Indian colleges is taught by people who practised a different theory of Solar and lunar eclipse at home ( I am borrowing the words of Madras Univ Registrar some 10 years ago, an IAS officer
Ashok vardhan or some such name)
- From: sOdhanai (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net)
on: Sun Dec 19 12:50:33
sOdhanai mEl sOdhanai
- From: vEnkatan (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net)
on: Sun Dec 19 12:52:07
Tamizh / indhiya naaL kaNakkeedu patriya sila vivarangaL ...
kaala aLavu
1 naazhikai = 24 nimidam
2 1/2 naazhikai = 1 maNi
3 3/4 naazhikai = 1 mukoortham
7 1/2 naazhikai = 2 mukoortham = 1 jaamam
8 jaamam = 1 naaL (pakal + iravu)
7 naaL = 1 vaaram
2 patcham (paksham) = 1 maatham
2 maatham = 1 ruthu (paruvam)
3 ruthu (paruvam) = 1 ayanam
2 ayanam = 1 varudam
naatkaL
- nyaayiRu
- thingaL
- chevvaay
- puthan
- viyaazhan
- veLLi
- sani
thithikaL
- prathamai
- dhvithiyai
- thrithiyai
- chathurthy
- panchami
- sashti
- sapthami
- ashtami
- navami
- dhasami
- Ekaadhasi
- dhvaadhasi
- thrayOdhasi
- chathurdhasi
- pOurnami (alladhu) ammaavaasai
- From: vEnkatan (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net)
on: Sun Dec 19 12:52:56
maadhangaL
- chiththirai
- vaikaasi
- aani
- aadi
- aavaNi
- purattaasi
- aippasi
- kaarththikai
- maarkazhi
- thai
- maasi
- panguni
pakshangaL
- krishna paksham
- shukla paksham
paruvangaL (ruthukkaL)
- iLa vEnil (vasantha ruthu)
- muthu vEnil (karishma ruthu)
- kaar kaalam (varsha ruthu)
- kuLir kaalam (sarath ruthu)
- mun panik kaalam (hEmantha ruthu)
- pin panik kaalam (sisira ruthu)
- From: vEnkatan (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net)
on: Sun Dec 19 12:57:36
aaNdugaL
1- pirapava (1988-89)
2- vipava
3- shukkila
4- piramOthootha
5- pirajOthpaththi
6- aankeerasa
7- sri muka
8- pava
9- yuva
10- thaathu
11- eesvara
12- vekuthaanya
13- piramaathi
14- vikrama
15- vishoo
16- chithrapaanu
17- supaanu
18- thaaraNa
19- paarththipa
20- viya
21- sarvasiththu
22- sarvathaari
23- virOthi
24- vikruthi
25- kara
26- nanthana
27- vijaya
28- jaya
29- manmatha
30- thunmuki
31- hEviLampi
32- viLampi
33- vikaari
34- saarvari
35- pilava
36- supakiruthu
37- sOpakiruthu
38- kurOthi
39- visvavasu
40- paraapava
41- pilavanga
42- keelaka
43- soumiya
44- saathaaraNa
45- virOthikiruthu
46- parithaapi
47- piramaatheesa
48- aanantha
49- raakshasa
50- naLa
51- pinkaLa
52- kaaLayukthi
53- siththaarththi
54- routhri
55- thunmathi
56- thunthupi
57- ruthrOthkaari
58- rakthaakshi
59- kurOthana
60- akshaya
- From: vEnkatan (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net)
on: Sun Dec 19 12:59:35
mannikkavum. mudhalaam aaNdu 'pirapava' 1987-88 enRirunthiruththal vENdum.
- From: vEnkatan (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net)
on: Sun Dec 19 13:03:42
Talking about tamil years, Mahakavi Bharathi sang a song about the 'eri(vaal) natchaththiram he saw, on the name of 'saathaaraNa varushaththu dhoomakEthu'. From the year's name we can deduce that he should have seen it in the year 1910-1911.
- From: vEnkatan (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net)
on: Sun Dec 19 13:13:38
ayanam (=6 maadhangaL)
- uththaraayanam
(sooriya oLik kadhirkaL nilanadukkOttiRku vadakkE nEradiyaay veezhum kaalam)
- dhakshinaayanam
(theRkE veezhum kaalam)
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.135)
on: Mon Dec 20 05:49:42
From: vEnkatan (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net) on: Sun Dec 19 13:03:42
Talking about tamil years, Mahakavi Bharathi sang a song about the 'eri(vaal) natchaththiram he saw, on the name
of 'saathaaraNa varushaththu dhoomakEthu'. From the year's name we can deduce that he should have seen it in
the year 1910-1911.
Bharathiyar has written about the Halley's Comet.
Incidentally, T.K.Chidhambaranaadha Mudhaliyaar has also seen it. He has written about it in one of his articles.
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.135)
on: Mon Dec 20 06:16:40
>>>>>From: vEnkatan (@ 1cust234.tnt3.hou3.da.uu.net) on: Sun Dec 19 12:52:07
Tamizh / indhiya naaL kaNakkeedu patriya sila vivarangaL ...
kaala aLavu
1 naazhikai = 24 nimidam
2 1/2 naazhikai = 1 maNi
3 3/4 naazhikai = 1 mukoortham <<<<<
1 nazhikai = 60 naadis
1 naadi = 60 vinaadis.
This is also known as "nodi". Nannuul urai gives the definition of the reckoning for nodi. The verse starts "Unnal kaalE, eduththal araiyE, muRukkal mukkal, etc."
Two and half vinaadis make one English second.
60 vinaadis make one naadi. 60 naadis make one nalzikai which is equilant to 24 English minutes.
Two and a half nalzikais are equal to one "Hora" which is equal to the English "Hour".
"Nimisha" in our reckoning was different.
It was the time taken for the winking of the eye. "Nimi" is the eye-lid. "Nimisha" became "nimida" or "nimita" slowly.
Somehow or other, this "nimisha" came to be applied to the English minute by mistake. May be its because of the Spooneristic nature of the pronounciation - "nimit" and "minute".
Katika yantra was a water-clock. There were specifications for making them. Sun-dials were also used.
Later on, the Dutch brought the clock-work clocks and watches to India.
At this time, this took the name of Katika yantra.
The watches were worn on a chain and hung around the neck. Or they were hung on the end of a chain and this was kept inside a pocket. It was common to have a slit in the shirt pocket, where the watch could be slid inside. This was called the "Mani pocket".
Thus they watches came to be called the Katika Haaram which became shortened to Katikaaram. Now wall clocks and wrist watches are also called "Katikaarams".
- From: Chandra (@ fw-atlanta.atlanta.usweb.com)
on: Mon Dec 20 10:47:03
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