Topic started by Chandra on Mon May 17 14:14:07 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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A catch all thread for marabuppAs that are neither veNpA nor AciriyappA.
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Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Chandra (@ viking2.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Jun 15 12:16:30
Ananth,
I am sorry I did not take care to read your "instant follow-up" carefully.
And apologies for that trying to infer about how you might be pronouncing those letters. :-)
I wish I had thiruppugaz with me. I am trying to get it. Also do you know any audio
albums of thiruppugaz?
Ananth, I was not trying to say that the kAval kkt you composed was bad or incorrect.
I made a general comment on poems employing too much word tricks that split sounds
at unnatural places just to obey the rules.
It (kAval kkt) is nice to read again. So do not feel discouraged.
You are very prolific and have composed so many kkts in such a short time...I have not composed one so far :-))
The "kAntha" kkt is pretty good.
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Tue Jun 15 13:07:00
- From: Chandra (@ viking2.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Jun 15 14:21:21
aruLarasan,
I see you post empty messages like the one above... does that mean that you have made your latest round but had nothing to say?...:-))
- From: aruLarasan (@ psiphi.umsl.edu)
on: Tue Jun 15 14:41:33
chandhrA,
not at all. if you read the page source i was trying to reset the font, but i think in this in this particular thread, bb corrected the mistake. actually, i spend only few minutes in the labs and hence i'm mostly in read only mode. will be back to write/read mode, hopefully, early next week.
- From: Chandra (@ viking2.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Jun 15 18:04:45
Tagore Stray Birds:
first three verses translated.
I had earlier posted kuRaL veNpAs of the same verses in the veNpA thread (vvv). Here I am presenting them in the form of some kind of viruththams.
ĸ ġ Ţ Ţ
, ,
â Ƣ (տ ¢)
Ţ Ȣ ȣ ž
Ӿ Ǣ .
[측¢ ÿܼ ħ
:
Ҩ
Ǣ
....
Ţâ 츢 ...â ¡ .
]
ž Ƣ " šƢ â
].
= ;
â ¡ ŨǢ .
ɿ¢ (pathos) ;
â š?
Ӿ :
̨¡
ɢ Чš
ҽ
š Ƣš â
ҽ
š Ƣ
Ȣ šƢ â]
My poems are pretty much the same.
I have employed "nirai" acai also in the middle of the 3rd and 6th cIr of many adis..I hope that does not spoil the ilakkaNam. Would like feedback from pulavarkaL.
ɢȨ
â ؿ
了 Ţ;
了 Ţ
Ӹš
츢 Χ.
š ɢĸ
ɢ ǿ ھ¢
Ȣ
Ȣ
Ţ
ţ Χ.
ɢĸ!
â ȨŸ!
Ţ ɨ
¡;
Ţ ɨ
Ţ ţ θ
ţ ʸ!
Ţ ģá Ţ
ơ .
- From: Chandra (@ viking2.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Jun 15 18:08:17
ĸ ġ Ţ Ţ
, ,
â Ƣ (տ ¢)
Ţ Ȣ ȣ ž
Ӿ Ǣ .
[측¢ ÿܼ ħ
:
Ҩ
Ǣ
....
Ţâ 츢 ...â ¡ .
]
ž Ƣ " šƢ â
].
= ;
â ¡ ŨǢ .
ɿ¢ (pathos) ;
â š?
Ӿ :
̨¡
ɢ Чš
ҽ
š Ƣš â
ҽ
š Ƣ
Ȣ šƢ â
My poems txlt'ing Tagore's:
ɢȨ
â ؿ
了 Ţ;
了 Ţ
Ӹš
츢 Χ.
š ɢĸ
ɢ ǿ ھ¢
Ȣ
Ȣ
Ţ
ţ Χ.
ɢĸ!
â ȨŸ!
Ţ ɨ
¡;
Ţ ɨ
Ţ ţ θ
ţ ʸ!
Ţ ģá Ţ
ơ .
- From: Chandra (@ viking2.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Jun 15 18:13:55
I apologize for the problems with html tags. I made some typo in the tags I think...
Also it is sad to see the indentation on the alternate adis missing...looks like the Tamil editors have problems with tabs. I will have to use spaces!
I am making one more attempt...Please forgive me for wasting real estate:
ɢȨ
â ؿ
了 Ţ;
了 Ţ
Ӹš
츢 Χ.
š ɢĸ
ɢ ǿ ھ¢
Ȣ
Ȣ
Ţ
ţ Χ.
ɢĸ!
â ȨŸ!
Ţ ɨ
¡;
Ţ ɨ
Ţ ţ θ
ţ ʸ!
Ţ ģá Ţ
ơ .
- From: Chandra (@ viking2.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Jun 15 18:14:57
Sorry folks...global replacement on Murasu 2.x did not work.
- From: ananth (@ 130.219.176.136)
on: Tue Jun 15 18:17:22
Chandra: Thanks for your nice words. There is no need for "I thought that you thought that I meant..." between us! We perfectly understand each other!! Your comments and encouragement(and also many times corrections, which are the most important part of teaching and learning) have been very valuable to me. I still want your opinion of the "kAntha" kkt besides simply "pretty good" since I feel there is something still missing there. I also want to know what you thought of the cakala kalAvalli kkt that I gave as an example for mOnai. I gave this as an example only and it should never imply that great poets like Kumarakuruparar do not care about rules!
As for thiruppugaz, there is a web page (thiruppugazh news letter) that contains all the songs (in English, however). I'll get you the URL soon.
I do not recall posting my veNpA on the other two philosophers (madhvA and ramAnujA)besides sankarA whom I wrote about a while ago; if I haven't, can I post them in vvv without boring people with "dry" material?
- From: Chandra (@ viking2.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Jun 16 12:08:56
Ananth,
:-)))
All right, I will tone down my formality. :-)
As for mOnai:
First of all, I only said that pozippu mOnai (or in general idaiyitta mOnai) is the most common mOnai.
The other *serious* alternatives are
kIzkkathuvAy mOnai (1/2/4),
mERkathuvAy mOnai (1/3/4)
and, of course,
muRRU mOnai (1/2/3/4 all cIrs).
Clearly in general, the pozippu mOnai requires least effort since the least number of cIrs are involved.
Secondly a subtle point is that sometimes you can get away with mOnai in cases where the sentence flows with subject, predicate etc. falling in place.
It is only when the adi contains a list of things etc., that you need mOnai to avoid it sounding dull like a grocery list.
Another point is that even though the adi may have no letters occuring at the beginning of the cIrs, letters bearing mOnai may occur in the middle of the cIrs but at the beginning of the words which they are part of.
The poem you have cited:
That is not a typical poem wrt thodai.
And I am sure you will find that the general points I have enunciated above apply to that pA.
- From: ananth (@ 130.219.176.136)
on: Thu Jun 17 13:14:59
Chandra: I was thrilled to read your awsome poems (Tagore songs)! What a rhythm and isai! You said this is styled after the varipp paatu of iLankO. What are the grammar rules here? I couldn't help cite the piLLaith thamiz pAs of kumara kuruparar (I had both of them for the final year in high school and simply loved their musical and poetic style).
̛ ƙ
֡ Հ㹳 Ž͍
Ƒ
ɯ
̥ ؍
陘 Ͽ
㹰 ɯ
ݴ ള ׀㹰
ә
ô ɯ
϶ ҹ
ï ב
ô ր
ύ ô ύ
ô Ꙑ Ҁב
ðב ôύ
Ofcourse, the lines do not break the above way but do like the one below; I just wanted to highlight the sound/musical effect.
The next one is on mInAkshi:
ڪ ź 鑀 ര
鴲 ƍ ݛƍ
ź ѝ
ƿ Ͽ Ƒ ̛
è ב 㴱
౿ Ѵϙ ̑ ב
퍑 פ ύ
ƴ ל 闺 ב ύ ύ
ڪ ź
ര..
In both the pAs 2-cIr is used for the 1st two adis and 3 cIr for the 3rd and so on. veNthalai is also strictly followed. But they seem to sound a bit similar to your non-veNthaLai piece. I look forward to your comments.
- From: Chandra (@ viking2.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Jun 17 15:30:12
Ananth,
Thanks for your appreciation of my poems.
Yes, I had always loved the Ocai of the first three poems of kanal vari.
And when I was looking for a viruththam-like pA other than ceppalOcai veNpA to "port" the original txnls, I thought of these pAs.
I am surprised to see that the piLLaith thamizp pAs also obey the kAnal varic candham.
[Ananth, the first one that you cited has iyaRcIr veNthaLai within each adi but the second one does not 100%. Check: ezuthip pArththirukkum; thuvacan peRRaperu.]
I do not know explicitly the ilakkaNam for this type of pA.
the cilampu pAs do not have veNthaLai. *I* feel that avoiding veNthaLai might make them sound better...the akaval thaLai seems to impart a better Ocai.
My take on the ilakkaNam for the kAnal varip pAs:
1. mA mA mAngkAy mA mA mAngkAy
in each adi
[though I have used vilangkAys as mentioned in the disclaimer :-)]
2. the second adi maRippu:
[repeats with a slight change at the last few (1 or 2) cIrs].
I feel that the first constraint makes the pA have the second. I could feel the rhythm force one to do so. If one had iyaRcIr veNthaLais, #2 *may* not be needed I would venture to guess.
It is interesting to compare this with one of the orthodox forms for 6-cIr Aciriya viruththam:
kAy kAy mA kAy kAy mA.
There seems to be a sea of difference between the Ocais of these two yAppus.
Please comment.
I wanted to have break from veNpAs...was getting addicted to it (as aruL has been saying quite a few time) and wanted to obey the aphorism (which goes something like this):
"If you do not know more than one way of doing a thing, then you really do not know how to do it".
:-)))
I am
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