Topic started by Swaminathan (@ cache1.bnl.gov) on Wed Apr 3 08:41:18 .
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This is an effort to learn kamba ramayanam in an interactive manner, posting and discussing verses each day. Kamba Ramayanam is an epic in Tamil by Kambar, with more than 10,500 verses. The intricacies, poetic nuances, similes, metaphors, characterizations, descriptions and reading a vast epic in poem format makes this a unique work. The initiative is run through volunteers only. If you want to type up verses and take part in discussions, please go ahead, in this thread. Please contact Balaji Srinivasan (bb) for further details. The master page for this project is here: http://www.dhool.com/balaji/kambar/ |
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- From: ananth (@ sherbrooke-hse-ppp3606142.sympatico.ca)
on: Sun Apr 11 00:06:19 EDT 2004
>ÁÐÃÀ¡Ã¾¢ §¸ð¼Ð: þ¾Ã «Ãº§¾Å¢Â÷ ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼§ÂȢ¨¾ô ÀüÈ¢ ¯.§Å.º¡. ±ýÉ ÜÈ¢ÔûÇ¡÷?
þíÌ þð¼ ¯¨ÃôÀʧ ¯§Åº¡ ¯¨Ã¢Öõ ¸¡ñ¸¢ÈÐ. "Á¡¾Ã¡÷¸û «ÚÀ¾¢É¡Â¢ÃÕõ ¯ûÇõ ÅÄ¢òÐ þÕôÀì *§¸¡Ð þø ̽òÐì* §¸¡º¨ÄÔõ þ¨Ç Á¡Ðõ ̨ÆóÐ ²í¸" ±ýÈ Åâ¸¨Ç §¿¡ìÌõ§À¡Ð «ì¸¡ÄòÐ Ó¨ÈôÀÊ, «ÃºÅ¡Ã¢ÍìÌ ¯Ã¢¨Á¦ÀÈò ¾Ì¾¢ÔûÇ ¬ñÁ¸ý(¸¨Çô) ¦ÀüÈ Àð¼òÐò §¾Å¢Â÷ (Àð¼Á¸¢„¢¸û) ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²ÚÅÐ ¾Îì¸ôÀðÊÕì̧Á¡ ±ýÈ ³Âõ ±Ø¸¢ÈÐ. ÁüÈ §¾Å¢Â÷¸û §À¡Ä ¿¡Óõ ¿õ¨Á Á¡öòÐ즸¡ûÇ þÂÄ¡Áø ºð¼õ ¾Î츢ȧ¾ ±ýÚ §¸¡º¨ÄÔõ ÍÁò¾¢¨ÃÔõ ÅÕó¾¢Â¨¾î ¦º¡øÅЧÀ¡Ä ±ÉìÌô Àθ¢ÈÐ.
¾ºÃ¾ý ¯Â¢÷À¢Ã¢ó¾¨¾ì §¸¡º¨Ä ¯½÷Ũ¾î ¦º¡øÖõ À¡¼ÖìÌ (¨¾ÄÁ¡ðÎô À¼Äõ À¡¼ø 62) ¯§Åº¡ ¯¨Ã¢ý À¢ý ¾óÐûÇ ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢ø, Å¡ýÁ£¸ò¾¢ø ÜÚÅÐ Íð¼ôÀθ¢ÈÐ. «¾ýÀÊ, ÍÁó¾¢Ãý ÁðΧÁ ¾ºÃ¾ý ¯Â¢÷¿£ò¾§Å¨Ç¢ø þÕó¾¡ý ±É×õ §¾Å¢Â÷¸û ¡ÅÕõ þáÁ¨Éô À¢Ã¢ó¾ §º¡¸ò¾¢ø «Â÷óРТĢø þÕ󾾡ø ÁÚ¿¡û ¸¡¨Ä¢ø ÁýɨÉò Т¦ÄØôÀô À¡Î§Å¡÷ ¸ñÎ ¦º¡ýÉÀ¢ý ¾¡ý «Å÷¸û ÀûǢ¨È¢ø ÒÌóÐ Ü÷óÐ §¿¡ì¸¢ ¯ñ¨Á ¯½÷óÐ ¸¾È¢É÷ ±É×õ «È¢¸¢§È¡õ.
«Éóò
- From: †Ã¢ ¸¢Õ‰½ý (@ 61.1.200.136)
on: Sun Apr 11 02:09:19 EDT 2004
«Éóò ¦º¡ýÉÐ:
=====================
«ÃºÅ¡Ã¢ÍìÌ ¯Ã¢¨Á¦ÀÈò ¾Ì¾¢ÔûÇ ¬ñÁ¸ý(¸¨Çô) ¦ÀüÈ Àð¼òÐò §¾Å¢Â÷ (Àð¼Á¸¢„¢¸û) ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²ÚÅÐ ¾Îì¸ôÀðÊÕì̧Á¡ ±ýÈ ³Âõ ±Ø¸¢ÈÐ.
=====================
«ôÀʧ¡÷ ³Âò¾¢üÌ þ¼Á¢ø¨Ä. ¸¢ó¾Áý ±ýÈ ÓÉ¢ÅÛ¨¼Â º¡Àò¾¡ø, ¾ý Á¨ÉÅ¢¨Âî §º÷ó¾¡ø þÈóÐŢΧšõ ±ýÈ ¿¢¨Ä¢ø ÅÉò¾¢ø Å¡úó¾ À¡ñÎ, þ¨Ç ¾¡ÃÁ¡É Á¡òâ¨Âî §ºÃ Å¢¨Æ¨¸Â¢ø «Åý ¯Â¢÷ À¢Ã¢ó¾Ð. À¡ñΨÅî º¢¨¾Â¢ø ¨ÅìÌõ §À¡Ð Ìó¾¢ ¦º¡ø¸¢È¡û:
«†õ ˆ§Â‰¼¡ ¾÷ÁÀòÉ¢ ˆ§Â‰¼ ¾÷ÁÀÄõ ÁÁ
«ýÅ¢‰Â¡Á£† À÷ò¾¡ÃÁ†õ ô§Ã¾Å„õ ¸¾õ
(¬¾¢ À÷Åõ, ¦¸ÇÃÅ Åõº Å¢Õò¾¢ - 124.24)
¿¡§É ãò¾ ¾÷ÁÀòÉ¢. ãò¾ ¾÷ÁÀÄý ±ÉìÌâÂÐ. À¢§Ã¾ ¯Ä¸¢ý ÁýÉÕìÌ ÅºÁ¡¸¢Å¢ð¼ À÷ò¾¡¨Å ¿¡ý À¢ýÀüÈ¢î ¦ºø¸¢§Èý.
þó¾î ͧġ¸ò¾¨¾ô À¡÷ìÌõ §À¡Ð, ¯¼ý ¸ð¨¼ ²ÚÅÐ ¾ÕÁÁ¡¸ì ¸Õ¾ôÀ𼧾¡ ±ýÚ §¾¡ýÚ¸¢ÈÐ. 'ÌÆ󨾸¨Ç ÅÇ÷ìÌõ ¦À¡ÚôÒ ¯ýÛ¨¼ÂÐ. ¿£§Â þÅ÷¸¨Ç ÅÇ÷òÐ ¬Ç¡ì¸ §ÅñÎõ' ±ýÚ Ìó¾¢ ¦º¡øĢŢðÎ, À¡ñÎ×¼ý ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²Èô§À¡¸¢È¡û. «ô§À¡Ð Á¡òâ ¦º¡øÅÐ þÐ: (Å÷òÁ¡Éý À¾¢ôÀ¸ò¾¡÷ ¦ÅǢ¢ð¼ Á†¡À¡Ã¾õ - ¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÀÂ÷ôÒ)
'±ý§É¡Î §º÷󾾢ɡø¾¡ý þÅÕìÌ þó¾ì ¸¾¢ ²üÀð¼Ð. ±É§Å ¿¡§É «ÅÕ¼ý ¯Â¢÷Å¢¼ §ÅñÊÂÅû. ž¢ø ãò¾ÅÇ¡¸¢Â ¿£ ±ÉìÌ þ¾üÌ «ÛÁ¾¢ ¦¸¡Îì¸ §ÅñÎõ. ±ýÉ¡ø þýÀò¨¾ «¼ì¸ ÓÊÂÅ¢ø¨Ä. «¾É¡ø «Å¨Ãô À¢ý ¦¾¡¼÷óÐ ¦º¡÷ì¸õ ¦ºýÈ¡ÅÐ «ó¾ ¬¨º¨Â ¿¢¨È§ÅüÈ¢ì ¦¸¡ûÇô §À¡¸¢§Èý. «òмý þôÀ¢û¨Ç¸û Å¢„Âò¾¢ø ±ýÉ¡ø À¡ÃÀðºÁ¢ýÈ¢ ¿¼ì¸ò ¦¾Ã¢Â¡Ð. «ÛÀÅõ Á¢ì¸ ¯ýÉ¡ø ¯ý À¢û¨Ç¸¨Çô §À¡ý§È ±ý À¢û¨Ç¸¨ÇÔõ §À½¢ ÅÇ÷ì¸ ÓÊÔõ; ±É§Å «ÅÕ¼ý ¿¡Ûõ ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²Èô §À¡¸¢§Èý; ±ý¨Éò ¾Îì¸ §Åñ¼¡õ.'
«ó¾î ºÁÂò¾¢ø, ÍüȢ¢Õó¾ â„¢¸û «Å÷¸û þÕŨÃÔõ ¾Îò¾É÷. '¿£í¸û ³óÐ À¢û¨Ç¸¨Ç ¯¨¼ÂÅ÷¸û; ±É§Å þÕÅÕõ Áýõ «¨¼¾ø ܼ¡Ð; þÅ÷¸¨Ç ÅÇ÷ì¸ §ÅñÊ ¦À¡ÚôÒ ¯í¸ÙìÌ ¯ûÇÐ; ±ø§Ä¡Õõ «Š¾¢É¡ÒÃõ ¦ºø§Å¡õ. ¾¢Õ¾¢Ã¡‰Êà ÁýÉÉ¢¼õ ¿¼ó¾¨¾ Å¢ÀÃÁ¡¸î ¦º¡ø֧šõ.'
þó¾ì ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢ð¼ þ¼òÐìÌì ¸ÁÄ¡ ÍôÀ¢ÃÁ½¢ÂÉ¢ý ¬í¸¢Ä ¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÀÂ÷ôÒ þÐ: 'You are both mothers. It is you8r duty to stay with your children and take care of them. They are now sunk in the depths of despair. It is not fitting that you, their dear mothers, should now leave them and make them orphans in the full sense of the word. We will ltake you both to the city of Hastinapura.'
Ìó¾¢ þó¾ ¦Á¡Æ¢¸Ç¡ø §¾Ú¾ø «¨¼¸¢È¡û. ¾¢¼ôÀθ¢È¡û. ¬É¡ø Á¡òâ þ¨¾ ÁÚòÐî ¦º¡ø¸¢È¡û. '«ì¸¡! ¿¡ý À¢û¨Ç¸¨Ç ÅÇ÷ôÀ¾¢Öõ º¡Á÷ò¾¢Âõ «üÈÅû; ¸¡Á þýÀò¾¢Öõ ¾¢Õô¾¢ «¨¼Â¡¾Åû; ±É§Å ¿¡ý «ÅÕ¼ý ¦ºýÚ À½¢Å¢¨¼ ¦ºöÂô §À¡¸¢§Èý; þÉ¢ ±ý À¢û¨Ç¸¨Ç ¯ý À¢û¨Ç¸Ç¡¸ ÅÇ÷òÐ즸¡û; ±ÉìÌ «ÛÁ¾¢ ¦¸¡Î,' ±ýÚ ÜȢɡû. À¢ýÉ÷ ¿ÌÄ º¸¡§¾Å÷¸¨Çì Ìó¾¢Â¢ý ¨¸Â¢ø À¢ÊòÐì ¦¸¡Îò¾¡û.'
¸ÁÄ¡ ÍôÀ¢ÃÁ½¢Âõ þ§¾ þ¼ò¨¾ þùÅ¡Ú ¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÀÂ÷츢ȡ÷: 'The words of the rishis found no response in the heart of Madri. She was bent on only one thing: her death with the husband who had to die because of her. "He wanted me," she said. "Before he was even able to satisfy himself he died. I have got to go to him and satisfy him. I must die with him". She was delirious with the pain in her heart. She looked at Kunti and said: "My dear sister, you are the elder and the wiser of us two. I will never be able to guard the children as you can. My sons, born out of your kindness, are really your sons. You are great enough to be the mother of fiver sons. You are the only person who can guard them. You have your cousins, the Vrishnis, to help me. You must help me to realise my dream. I will not, I cannot, live in this world without my lord. I will ascend the funeral pyre with him. You must agree to make this sacrifice for me. You must live for the sake of these sons of yours. You will see them rulers of this entire world. Life will have its compensations for you. I pray to you, grant me this, my wish."
þùÅÇ× ¿£ÇÁ¡¸ ±Ø¾ôÀðÊÕó¾¡Öõ, §Áü ¦º¡øĢ¢ÕìÌõ À̾¢ ¦º¡øÖìÌî ¦º¡øÄ¡É ¦Á¡Æ¢¦ÀÂ÷ôÀ¢ø¨Ä. ¸ÁÄ¡ ÍôÀ¢ÃÁ½¢Âý «Å÷¸Ç¢ý þÂøÀ¡É, Å¢Çì¸Á¡É, ÁüÚõ þÇì¸Á¡É ÁÚ-¬ì¸õ ±ýÀ¾¢ø ³ÂÁ¢Õì¸ ÓÊ¡Ð. ²¦ÉÉ¢ø ¿¡ý §Á§Ä ÌÈ¢ôÀ¢ðÊÕìÌõ ͧġ¸ò¾¢üÌõ Á¡òâ ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²È¢É¡û ±ýÚ ¦º¡øÖõ ͧġ¸ò¾¢üÌõ þ¨¼Â¢ø þÕôÀ¨Å ¬Ú ͧġ¸í¸û¾¡õ.
þòÔìòÅ¡õ ¾õ º¢¾¡ìÕŠ¾õ ¾÷ÁÀòÉ¢ ¿Ã÷„Àõ
ÁòÃჅ¤¾¡ à÷½ ÁýÅ¡§Ã¡†ò„ŠÅ¢É£
(¬¾¢ À÷Åõ, ¦¸ÇÃÅ Åõº Å¢Õò¾¢ - 124.30)
À÷ò¾¡ ±ý¨ÉÅ¢ðÎô À¢Ã¢Â¡Áø þÕì¸ ¿¡§É «ÅÕ¼ý ¦ºø¸¢§Èý. ÌÆ󨾸¨Ç ƒ¡ìè¾Â¡¸ì ¸¡ôÀ¡üȢ즸¡ñÎ ±ý Å¢ÕôÀò¨¾ô â÷ò¾¢ ¦ºöÔí¸û. §ÅÚ ¦º¡øÄ §ÅñÊÂÐ ²Ðõ ´Õ º¢È¢Ðõ ¿¡ý ¸¡½Å¢ø¨Ä.
§Áü ¦º¡øĢ¢ÕìÌõ À̾¢ ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²Ú¾¨Äô ÀüÈ¢ «ì¸¡Ä Áì¸û ±ôÀÊ ¿¢¨Éò¾É÷ ±ýÀ¨¾ *µÃÇ×ìÌ* Å¢Çí¸¢ì¦¸¡ûÇ ¯¾×¸¢ÈÐ ±ýÚ ¿¢¨É츢§Èý.
¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²Ú¾ø ±ýÈ ÅÆì¸ò¨¾ Å¢Çí¸¢ì¦¸¡ûÇ ¿¡õ ¦ºöÔõ ÓÂüº¢ þÐ. þ¨¾ ¬¾Ã¢òÐ ¿¡õ ±Ø¾Å¢ø¨Ä. À¡Ã¾¢Â¢ý ÅÆ¢ Åó¾ ¿õÁ¡ø þ¾¨É ¬¾Ã¢ì¸×õ ÓÊ¡Ð. ¿¡ý ´Õ male chauvinist ±ýÚ þ¨½Âò¾¢ø µÃ¢¼ò¾¢ø Å÷½¢ì¸ôÀðÊÕôÀ¾¡ø þ¨¾î ¦º¡øÄ §¿÷ó¾Ð. :)) Care a damn.
- From: B.Balaji (@ ppp-219.65.98.165.chn.vsnl.net.in)
on: Sun Apr 11 04:06:10 EDT 2004
†Ã¢ /«Éóò
Posted by ED VISWANATHAN on October 31, 1999 at 15:01:53:
In Reply to: Pandu's wife Madri's suicide has NOTHING to do with SATI posted by ED VISWANATHAN on October 31, 1999 at 14:57:06:
SUTEE OR SATI---Widows jumping into funeral pyre of the fallen husbands
SATI or SUTEE is the most horrendous act of widows killing themselves jumping into the funeral pyre of their dead husbands, sometimes willfully and sometimes forcefully by others.
BELIEVE IT OR NOT, SUTEE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HINDUISM. TO SAY SATI IS PART OF HINDUISM, IS LIKE SAYING SALEM WITCH HUNT AND SPANISH KILLING OF MAYANS HAS TO DO WITH TEACHINGS OF JESUS CHRIST.
There is not even one scriptural statement in thousands of Hindu scriptures concerning SATI. On the contrary, according to the funeral hymns in RIGVEDA, there is a ceremony of widow sleeping next to the corpse of the dead husband
and then being allowed to marry anyone she pleases.
RAMAYANA----In the epic Ramayana, after Lord Rama's father king Dasaratha died, none of his three wives practiced SATI. In Ramyana, when the monkey-king BALI died, his wife TARA married his brother SUGREEVA. When the demon king RAVANA got
killed, his wife MANDODHARI did not kill herself.
MAHABHARATA---There are not even one act of SATI in the whole epic poem of MAHABHRATA where thousands of men got killed. I CHALLENGE ANYONE OUT THERE TO SHOW ME ONE INCIDENT OF SUTTEE IN THE HINDU SCRIPTURES. The acts of Lord Krishna killing themselves after the demise of Krishna have nothing to do with SUTTEE.
MADRI'S [ PANDU'S WIFE IN MAHABHARATA ] HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH SUTEE. Madri's [ Pandu' second wife ] suicide has nothing to do with SATI. According to the MAHABHARATA EPIC [ the longest poem in the world ], King Pandu had two wives. The first was KUNTI [ Pritha ] and second was MADRI.
Once king PANDU was hunting in the forest along with MADRI and he saw two antelopes mating. Pandu with an arrow shot the male. Little Pandu knew that those antelopes were actually a saint and his wife. The dying male transformed himself to a saint [ RISHI ] and cursed Pandu slaying him during mating and cursed, " YOU, PANDU WILL DIE JUST LIKE ME IF YOU MAKE LOVE TO YOUR WIFE AGAIN"
From that time onwards, King Pandu lived in strict continence like a celibate [ BRAHMACHARI].
But one day, Pandu lost all his mind and chased MADRI, who fought him from making love. But finally she gave in. During intercourse, Pandu died as per the curse of the saint.
MADRI felt she was the reason why Pandu lost his life. Out of that remorse, Madri, jumped into the funeral pyre of her fallen husband.
MADRI's sucide has nothing to do with SUTTEE, since KUNTI did not follow Madri and kill herself. In fact, I have not seen one instance of a Hindu woman killing herself because her husband died.
MANDODHIRI, Ravana's wife did not kill herself when RAVANA was killed in the RAMAYANA.
TARA wife of monkey king BALI, did not kill herself when BALI was killed by RAMA, instead she married, BALI's brother SUGREEVA after the death of BALI.
I searched all the major PURANAS [ 18 of them ] and both EPICS [ RAMAYANA & MAHABHARATA ] and I did not see any act of SUTEE
Ref
http://www.indolink.com/Forum/Parents/messages/646.html
þó¾ þΨ¸ þð¼Å÷, þáÁ¡Â½ò¾¢Ä¢ÕóÐ §Áü§¸¡Ç¢ðÎ, ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²Úõ ÅÆì¸õ Òá½í¸Ç¢ø þø¨Ä ±É Å¢Çì¸ ÓüÀðÎûÇ¡÷. ¾ºÃ¾É¢ý Àð¼Á¸¢„¢¸¨Ç ¯¾¡Ã½Á¡¸ì ¸¡ðÊÔûÇ¡÷ (¯¼ý ¸ð¨¼ ²ÈÅ¢ø¨Ä ±ýÀ¾ü¸¡¸).
§ÁÖõ Á¡òâ¢ý ¦ºÂ¨ÄÔõ þùÅÆì¸ò¾¢ýÀÊ¡ÉÐ ±É , ²üÚ즸¡ûÇ×Á¢ø¨Ä
¾ºÃ¾É¢ý §¾Å¢Á¡÷¸¨Çô ÀüÈ¢, ӾĢø ź¢ð¼ý š측¸×õ, À¢ýÉ÷ «Å÷¸û ¯¼ý¸ð¨¼ ²È¢ ¿ü¸¾¢ «¨¼ó¾É÷ ±ýÚõ þÕ þ¼í¸Ç¢ø ¸õÀÉ¢ø ÅÕ¸¢ÈÐ.
þ¨Å Out of context ±ÉôÀθ¢ÈÐ. ²¦ÉÉ¢ø
Å¡øÁ£¸¢Â¢ø þø¨Ä.
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¸õÀý þ¨Äî º¢ÈôÀ¡¸ô §Àº¢ÔûǨÁìÌò ¾ì¸ ¸¡Ã½í¸Ç¡¸ ²Ðõ þø¨Ä.
þôÀ¡¼ø¸¨Ç À¾¢ôÀº¢Ã¢Â÷¸û / ¯¨Ã¡º¢Ã¢Â÷¸û ¸õÀý ¸Å¢¸Ç¡ «øÄÐ þ¨¼î¦ºÕ¸ø¸Ç¡ ±É ¬öó¾È¢óÐ ¯¨Ã¢ð¼¡÷¸Ç¡ ±ýÀÐ
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- From: ÁÐÃÀ¡Ã¾¢ (@ 61.11.81.118)
on: Mon Apr 12 00:54:52 EDT 2004
21-30 ¿¡ý þθ¢§Èý.
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