Topic started by Vanchinathan on Thu Jul 1 05:46:04 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

Thamizh vocabulary is rich enough to write verses of various kinds and for scholarly writing in certain topics. But many of us face a dilemma when
when we have to carry out our day-to-day conversations about mundane things in Thamizh.

The aim here is to find words that may be
employed in these situations without sounding like
a Thamizh teacher. Think of books for travellers
like "Italian in One week" which describes a typical conversation that takes place while, say, encashing traveller's cheques etc. The difference here is that this is: for the Thamizh people and by the Thamizh people!

Responses:

• Old responses
  
• From: Mani M. Manivannan (@ pc-242-57.corp.3com.com) on: Mon Aug 16 22:35:43
  
  Venkat,
  
  Having multiple synonyms for technical words is almost always a bad idea. Standardization leads to precision in communication - not dictatorship. Some comments on your suggestions:
  
  
  
  internet - iNaiyam ­¨½Âõ
  is already well established. Incidentally it was coined in the Tamil.Net by Malaysian and Singapore Tamils. Let us keep this.
  
  web - valai ŨÄ
  is also well established.
  
  world wide web - vaiaka virivu valai
  ¨Å¸ Å¢Ã¢× Å¨Ä
  was proposed by Dr. Jayabarathi in Tamil.Net and was enthusiastically received by everybody.
  
  I like the rest of your proposals. Manram for forum is also well established usage.
  
  forumhub - manRamaiyam - ÁýȨÁÂõ
  
  Do the founders of Forumhub endorse this? May be they want to keep their name as ·§À¡Ãõ†ô a la ºý ÊÅ¢. ;-))
  
  
  
• From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp) on: Tue Aug 17 04:42:49
  
  maNi,
  
  again, I differ. while talking about internet we are not talking about the technology, and rather a phenomenon. While i agree that there should be unique terms for scientific concepts, I also take care of some realities. I do not anymore hold internet as a scientific concept, it has become omnipresent and in the process has become nonscientific. So any terms we are looking for these are not bound by the 'one concept, one word' policy.
  
  At the same time, I am sure we should have unique words for defining the technology that governs the internet. In that spirit, I will not appreciate more than one tamil word for the layers beneath the web, say hardware or database.
  
  
• From: pg (@ hqinbh1.ms.com) on: Tue Aug 17 11:05:00
  
  Hi all,
  The main problem IMO with creating technical words in Tamil is that we are not the creators of this technology. We are the consumers. As such the words we coin have to be retrofitted into our existing vocabulary and while some words may be aesthetically pleasing most will sound forced.
  
  Inventing technology and coining terms for describing the technology do hand-in-hand. Unless we assimilate the technology and become masters of it so that we can contribute towards advancement of the technology we will always be playing catch-up : inventing more words as technology advances further. I believe this is one the reasons that developed non-English countries like Japan, France etc can learn in their own language : they are masters of the technology and have no problem describing it in their own languages. For catch-up languages like Tamil it is a chicken and egg story : we cannot master technology unless we learn it in our language and we cannot coin new words effectively unless we are masterof the technology.
  
  
• From: Mani M. Manivannan (@ sji-ca-cache2.netcom.net) on: Tue Aug 17 12:08:07
  
  Venkat,
  
  One of the fundamental principles of user interface design is the use of consistent terminology. Imagine if every car had accelerator, brak, clutch, gear positions, etc., in different places. Rather than mastering driving we will be busy mastering driving a Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM, car. We will not be able to reuse any of the concepts that we have learned. Both Apple and IBM revolutionized the windows interface design by following this common user interface philosophy. In the internet user interface, even the minor differences between IBM and Apple have to disappear. While there is some flexibility with respect to the local browser and O/S differences, some terminology is the same. "Home" is "Home" whether it is Netscape on Solaris or MSIE on Windows '9x. But Tamils will call it "kudil", "aham", "nulzhai vaayil", "il", "veedu", and so on. This lack of consistency will present a problem for new users who can transfer the skill they have acquired in learning a program.
  
  PG, part of what you say is true. But in coining and agreeing to standard terminology for user interface, the problem is not the mastery of technology. It is the lack of standardization. It is the Americans who invented and spread the Windowing interface. "File" and "Save" and "Exit" are all terms that an American programmer invented but they all have been translated into every language the American software companies have ported their programs to. But in each of the language, these concepts are identified by unique terms. When the Tamil software market gets big enough, Microsoft, Oracle, Sun, Apple and others will be there and THEY will DECIDE what that terminology for Tamil will be - unless we can agree amongst ourselves.
  
  
• From: Chandra (@ dragonfirex1.delta-air.com) on: Thu Aug 26 17:03:00
  
  pg says:
  "
  The main problem IMO with creating technical words in Tamil is that we are not the creators of this technology. We are the consumers. As such the words we coin have to be retrofitted into our existing vocabulary and while some words may be aesthetically pleasing most will sound forced. "
  
  pg:
  Who are the "we"?...Tamils and Indians form so much of the global scientific and technological work force and there is so much work being done in Indian universities. But owing to psychological problems we have never done the development in our languages.
  In this thread we are talking about a considerably narrowed scope of day-to-day Tamil. There we should be able to use Tamil technical terms and in a standard fashion.
  The problem is our attitude. We simply do not feel psyhcologically comfortable employing Tamil words.
  We feel as though somebody will make fun of us and take away the "western psyche" or "whiteness" from us..
  A forumhubber once mentioned in a tnhistory thread that a friend of his often would roll up the window of his car whenever he listened to Indian/Tamil music especially when approaching signals or travelling slow in city streets where people on the street can hear the songs and when he asked his friend why he did so he replied that "americans" would think "funny" of the songs in his tongue.
  People like that gentleman need to realize that their own physical apprearance is already "funny enough" or "strange enough" to the "american" on the street and he would then have to be an invisible man or morph themselves into white figures (or black ...are blacks american enough?)
  It shows that the problems we have are with the inability to feel fundamentally comfortable with our own identity...we constantly feel the subconscious urge to become "western" or "white"... and some people are under the illusion that they have become "white". That discomfort or illusion is what is taking away the will to practise elements of our heritage. When that discomfort goes away, there is will and there are ways.
  It is such problems that have resulted in people employing English words for days of the week and hours of the clock...not being "masters of the technology".
  
  
  
  
• From: Chandra (@ dragonfirex2.delta-air.com) on: Mon Aug 30 15:14:59
  
  
  ¢Ä Å¡Ãí¸ðÌ Óý, "serious(ness/ly)" ±ýÛõ ¬í¸¢Äî ¦º¡øÄ¢ý ¾Á¢ú ÀüÈ¢ ´Õ Á¡üÈõ (Ţš¾õ/debate) ¿¢¸Æó¾Ð.
  ¦À¡ÕðÎ/¦À¡Õ𼡸, ¦ÀâÐ/¦À⾡¸ [ÍõÁ¡ ŢΠ= take-it-easy]
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  À¡Ã¢ôÒ = gravity, aggravation
  ÀÕ¨Á = gravity, importance
  
  pArippu
  otl pArippu pArippu 02 1. heaviness; weight; gravity; 2. seriousness, aggravation
  [À¡Ãõ ±ýÛõ ¦º¡øÖõ ­¾ý §Åâý Á£¾¡ÉÐ ±ýÀÐ §¾üÈõ]
  
  parumai
  otl parumai parumai 1. thickness; bulkiness; corpulence; 2. greatness; 3. roughness, coarseness, grossness; 4. seriousness, importance, gravity
  
  
  
• From: Chandra (@ dragonfirex2.delta-air.com) on: Mon Aug 30 15:19:28
  
  ÓõÓÃõ «øÄÐ ÓõÁÃõ ±ýÛõ Áü¦È¡Õ ¦º¡øÖõ §¿¡ì¸ò ¾ì¸Ð.
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  ¿¢¨É×ìÌ ÅÕõ :-))
  "¿¡ý ÓõÓÃÁ¡¸ §Å¨Ä Àñ½¢ì¦¸¡ñÊÕ츢§Èý" ±ýÚ ¦º¡øÅÐ ­É¢ì¸¢ÈÐ.
  
  
  
• From: Chandra (@ dragonfirex2.delta-air.com) on: Mon Aug 30 15:20:26
  
  
  ÓõÓÃõ «øÄÐ ÓõÁÃõ ±ýÛõ Áü¦È¡Õ ¦º¡øÖõ §¿¡ì¸ò ¾ì¸Ð.
  "¿¡ý …£Ã¢Â…¡¸ §Å¨Ä Àñ½¢ì¦¸¡ñÊÕ츢§Èý" ±ýÀ¾¢ø
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  ¿¢¨É×ìÌ ÅÕõ :-))
  "¿¡ý ÓõÓÃÁ¡¸ §Å¨Ä Àñ½¢ì¦¸¡ñÊÕ츢§Èý" ±ýÚ ¦º¡øÅÐ ­É¢ì¸¢ÈÐ.
  
  
  
• From: Chandra (@ dragonfirex2.delta-air.com) on: Mon Aug 30 15:21:56
  
  
  
  ÓõÓÃõ «øÄÐ ÓõÁÃõ
  otl mummaram mummaram 1. impetuosity, severity, vehemence, fierceness; 2. swiftness; 3. pomp; 4. attentiveness, concentration of mind eagerness
  
  
  
• From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp) on: Sun Sep 5 21:27:37
  
  To know about the younger generation of Japan (which is at a loss of words) read;
  http://www.newsweek.com/nw-srv/issue/09_99b/printed/int/socu/ov2609_1.htm
  
  
• From: JayBee (@ sp-69-88.tm.net.my) on: Mon Sep 6 00:41:03
  
  >>>>>From: Mani M. Manivannan (@ pc-242-57.corp.3com.com) on: Wed Aug 11 21:54:48
  >can you recall more commonly used tamil
  >abbreviations and acronyms?
  And of course, there is a custom among nagaraththaar to use abbreviations for names, such as ana. pana. cheena for Annamalai Palzhanyappan Chidambaram.<<<<<
  
  The more accurate useage is, "aanaa-paanaa-lzhaanaa-chiinaa-thaanaa".
  There are some names which have a double letter initial. Examples: Murugappan, Arunaachalam, Karuppaiah, AaRumugam, Palzhaniappan, Raamasaamy, SOmasundharam, Chidhambar, Suppiah, Sevugan, etc.
  
  
• From: Chandra (@ user-38lcc78.dialup.mindspring.com) on: Sun Dec 5 16:27:17
  
  
  ²ý ­ó¾ò ¾¢Ã¢ «õ§À¡ ¦ÅýÚ ¨¸Å¢¼ôÀð¼Ð?
  ¡§ÃÛõ º¡ýÈ¡¸ Å¢Á¡Éô À½õ ¦¾¡¼÷À¡¸ ´Õ ¸¡ðº¢¨Â ­¼ ÓÊÔÁ¡?