Topic suggested by balaji on Sat Apr 10 16:27:58 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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This is a thread to learn about and compose AsiriyappAs. |
Responses:
- From: balaji (@ compq1.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Wed Apr 21 06:30:49
Oradi eeradiyAi kOrththup pArththu
pOnAl pOgattum pOvenRu poRukkAdhu
uRangik kidakkum ivvidaththai
uyirUtta ezhudhinEn agavalE!
̦ ̦Ƒ Ѵ Ѵ
왍
雎 إ
Ъ !
- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Apr 21 13:55:07
â â
¢ ¢
¢ Ǣ ڨ ¢Ȣ
¢ ɢ
¢ ¨
ɢ Ţ
ɢ Ӿ!
u
n-Ericai AciriyappA
akavum kiyilE akavum kuyilE
pakalum iravum pAttup pAta
veyilum kuLirum vERRUmai yinRi
mayilum mAnum mitaiyum kAnil
payilum mEtaip parappai yamaiththOy
thanin-I pAtith thaviththal
inimEl illai in-n-AL muthalE!
Balaji,
That "Orati IratiyAy" one was a nice akaval!
nanRi for opening this thread and giving life to this thread and for your compulsive commercials in other channels!
Let us get rolling!
I feel that akaval Ocai already can be sensed and the suitability for different emotional expressions.
- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Apr 21 13:56:38
â â
¢ ¢
¢ Ǣ ڨ ¢Ȣ
¢ ɢ
¢ ¨
ɢ Ţ
ɢ Ӿ!
u
n-Ericai AciriyappA
akavum kiyilE akavum kuyilE
pakalum iravum pAttup pAta
veyilum kuLirum vERRUmai yinRi
mayilum mAnum mitaiyum kAnil
payilum mEtaip parappai yamaiththOy
thanin-I pAtith thaviththal
inimEl illai in-n-AL muthalE!
- From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Wed Apr 21 14:47:48
chandra, have u suddenly started using inaimathiTSC? i can't read it, as i am on a unix machine:((
- From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Wed Apr 21 14:49:09
chandra, last two adis should have edhugainnu solliyirundheenga.. have u used it in ur akaval?
- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Apr 21 15:00:39
Balaji,
I am sorry!
I would like to use Inaimathi only but after struggling with reading TSC fonts I somehow got Murasu 2.0 working which I was advised involved not running Anjal 1.8...I have not tried to break that superstition yet :-).
Since you said you are on Unix, I will take extra care to make life easy for my dear Unixians.
Anyway, I simply transliterated the same poem and posted it the second time.
Balaji, I *have* employed ethukai between the last two adis: thanin-I and inimEl...they match in all the three posiitons:kuRil, ni, nedil!
I have also taken care to employ pozippu mOnai in each and every adi!
Chandra
- From: makku balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Wed Apr 21 15:03:33
aaah, back to square one... what is edhugai? not the matching of first syllable?
- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Apr 21 15:24:02
makku
otl makku makku 02 .... 3. soft clay for filling up crevices in walls;
So you are the guru that fills the gaps in people's knowledge!
caraNam...
ethukai is a matching based on the *second* letter (or sound) and mOnai on the first sound.
m for muthal and ethukai for eraNtu.
but you are right: the first sound has to be of the same *length*... for ethukai to take effect.
Actually the following letter or the third sound also must often jive well to have a decent ethukai.
Thus ethukai is a little bit more constraining since more than one conditon must be met.
For example:
from thiruppAvai #3:
the first cIr of each adi:
Ongku, n-AngkaL, thIngku, thEngkAthE, vAngku, nIngkAtha all bear ethukai.
Ongku and thangku do not since the nedil "O" and kuRil "tha" do not match in length.
But "Ompu" and "thUngku" are better matches:
mp and ngk are class 2 matches.
- From: sathiya (@ annex2-p28.qualcomm.com)
on: Wed Apr 21 15:29:19
ennudaya kanni muyarchi...(thattal, kuttalgaLukku
ready!, chandra - otruppizhaigaLaiyum kUrungaL)
ithu kALidhaasanukku aRpaNam.
ב ƀ Ѵ !
ǀ! ! ґ 䴳
Ǫ
ՙ ش
י Ƒ ˳
ב ̛! ϙ!
э;
鹰 ٗ ٗ
̯ ב♀ ր;
׀ ت
ׯ ;
ׯ ϫ;
ב Ѵ !
ϵ תƑ
Ž ;
, Ż;
ґ
麨 ت
㴀 - ̛
;
ґ ϴ
Ͱؙ ت
̯ ח? Ƒ
ב Ө ݐ !
̙ ت
降
쿀 촳ت ? 엺˰
Ž Ƒ
ʹ э,
эƑ ̑ב ̑ʹ ב?
ر ր,
; 鑀 źי !
ґ ! Ƒ ѹ
Ű ׀; .
װ Ͽ ˿ 鹱Ϲ..
俻 ƀ
җґ ϙ , ?
˿ 鹱 ݴ !
˱Ϲ ̜
ѹ בⴳ! ב בⴳ!
Ż ɥ
Ż !
פ ٝ , ̜
̛ - ƍ
̛ ˿ 䙍, ї
̯ .
- From: sathiya (@ annex2-p28.qualcomm.com)
on: Wed Apr 21 15:33:49
Sorry guys, I messed up!
ב ƀ Ѵ !
ǀ! ! ґ 䴳
Ǫ
ՙ ش
י Ƒ ˳
ב ̛! ϙ!
э;
鹰 ٗ ٗ
̯ ב♀ ր;
׀ ت
ׯ ;
ׯ ϫ;
ב Ѵ !
ϵ תƑ
Ž ;
, Ż;
ґ
麨 ت
㴀 - ̛
;
ґ ϴ
Ͱؙ ت
̯ ח? Ƒ
ב Ө ݐ !
̙ ت
降
쿀 촳ت ? 엺˰
Ž Ƒ
ʹ э,
эƑ ̑ב ̑ʹ ב?
ر ր,
; 鑀 źי !
ґ ! Ƒ ѹ
Ű ׀; .
װ Ͽ ˿ 鹱Ϲ..
俻 ƀ
җґ ϙ , ?
˿ 鹱 ݴ !
˱Ϲ ̜
ѹ בⴳ! ב בⴳ!
Ż ɥ
Ż !
פ ٝ , ̜
̛ - ƍ
̛ ˿ 䙍, ї
̯ .
- From: Venky Narayanan (@ 207.247.192.254)
on: Wed Apr 21 17:00:57
wow! That is a nice long pA. Probably you can even think about developing it into a complete short story. Good show!
I did not understand the veNpA completely. Could you please post the pozhippurai?
Also, I noticed 'ai' being used as a kuRil. Isn't it a netil ? (Somebody correct me if I am wrong).
Example :
adi#1: pEthaiyena - kani cIr
adi#3: mAlaiyittu - nAnku asai cIr
adi#15: vEttaiyAta - nAnku asai cIr
I have noticed this contradiction in many popular modern day poets' padalkaL.
(Example: BhArathiyAr's veNpAs in his 'vinAyakar nANmaNi mAlai').
Can somebody please clarify this.
- From: venky (@ 207.247.192.254)
on: Wed Apr 21 17:18:34
Also in 'Bharatha dheviyin thiruthasAngam'
- From: sathiya (@ annex1-p72.qualcomm.com)
on: Wed Apr 21 17:20:45
'ai' - unless comes as the first letter of
a sIr, is considered as kuRil for all
practical purposes.(saridhaanE chandra, bb?)
First of all, let me inform you (if you haven't
found out) this is a scene taken from shaakunthalam.
I wish if people can come together, we can write
the whole shankunthalam in tamizh. This is the
scene, when after loosing patience, shakunthala
decides to meet the king dushyantha, leaving her
beloved flora & fauna of the forest
where she grew.
Closing venpa's pozhippurai-
vanjiyavaL kai veesich chendraal - if shakunthala goes to dushyantha with empty hands..
arasanin nenjamathu sIrengE endraal - if the raja demands (kalyaanach)sIr..
anjiya kaan - so feared forest
tham marangaL thangamaayp pUththaLikka - commanded the trees to give golden flowers as jewellery
sIrkoNdu tham araN kaN chenRanaL maathu - taking
that as sIr, shankunthala started to meet her
protector(husband)
- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Apr 21 19:56:02
Sathiya,
Wow! a long but moving narrative. akaval + veNpA combo is very effective with both the components serving their role.
The opening adi itself lays the foundation for the pathos with the "pEthai" et al.
I just love that combination. Especially after the poignant monologue from cakunthalai; the veNpA makes it look as though some unseen stage-announcer (I do not recall the exact term...) commenting at close of the act from behind the curtains or from the side of the stage.
There are no thaLai problems (of course, with akaval it is difficult to have one!).
A very impportant suggestion is:
too many 3-acai cIrs...!
An akavaRpA should be mostly made 2-acai cIrs.
Then only the akaval Ocai n-ayam will be brought out!
cIrs could be split differently some places for better cadence.
More mOnai ore ethukai within the adis could also have been added within the present choice of words by simple rearrangements or adding small fillers such as ingku, angku etc..
For example the first adi itself:
The third cIr causes some ocai problems:
cIr spliting only: "ב ƀѴ !"
[excess Orru removed].
or
"ב ƀ Ѵ "
The former sounds better...separates pEthai and emphasizes
it; not to mention reducing the number of 3-acai cIrs.
some sample ways of imparting thodai:
"ǀ! ! ґ 䴳"
-->
"ǀ! ƑƑ ! ݴ...
" ՙ ش"
---->" ՙ ش" (mOnai added)
[: : Ƒ ב ʹ...
"̍ 깰 ֍
ׯ ҿ ֵŻ .."
...
Í ̵...!
׳ ݍ Ϲϙ...!]
-->" ̗ ՙ ش..." (ethukai added)
--->" ̴ ՙ ش"
Or if you wanted to maintain ethukai with the next adi which begins
with "kAntharuva..."
" ̗Ҩ Ƒ Ƭش
Ƒ ˳"
[but you would notice that now all the 8 cIRs have
3-acai cIrs...sounds more like a kalippa or veNpA
which two, tolkApppiyar says, belong to the same category
and as do Aciriyam and vanjci!]
the "tham" on the IRRadi of the veNpA would not
strictly speaking go with the third person singular
"cenRAL mAthu". Only "than" would and still not be
spoiling the ethukai with the 3-rd adi.
Sathiya, this was just a pedagogical example,,,not intended to
thrust my choice on you.
That closing veNpA was not as innocuous as it looked!
the key is understanding the word "cIr".
cakunthalai taking the golden flowers suits her
environment and the fact that her monologue was addressing the trees.
Thanks and
Looking forward to more such works from you!
Chandra
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