Topic started by vinay (@ adsl-67-39-3-180.dsl.dytnoh.ameritech.net) on Wed Oct 22 22:07:56 .
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Hey,
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- From: A P MASILAMANI (@ cache202.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Sep 5 09:38:09 EDT 2004
//When you say ancient, how long are we talking about?//
With respect to the word suuriyan and the concept reflected by the word, I estimate at least 3 to 4 thousand years.
//As far as I know Thamizhans had known about the fact that Earth revolved around the Sun songs from Thamizh Sangam Period etc.//
In a natural language like Tamimizh, people make words; pulavars also coin words!! Some words emerge from certain locality but not known in another locality. In Tirunelveli India, they say chiini avaraikkaai, in Koovai (Coimbatore) they say kottavarangaai! One tribe might have believed one thing; another tribe another thing. Later, the coined word might have crossed over to the other tribe minus the concept underlying it. Hence there may be differences here and there in beliefs. One group believes in Sivan; another in Maal. But they have, regardless of their underlying beliefs, left the words for us and made Tamil rich.
Have you heard of this: Original name of deity, Oppiliyan (One without comparison), People mispronounced it and it ended up as Uppiliyan (One who eats without salt). So in Uppiliyakkudi, the deity is "served" food without salt. So words can also undergo changes owing to misconceptions.
- From: A P MASILAMANI (@ cache202.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Sep 5 10:04:16 EDT 2004
//So did Thamizhans also thought Sun revolved around Earth...and then realized it later on but before the Europeans let's say.//
If you look at the word Ulagam - ulagu, the Tamils knew that the earth was round.
ul > ur > uruL
ul > ula > ulavu. (going round, wander.)
ul > ula > ulaku > ulakam!! The planet that is round and it goes round (ulavu..)
nyal = hang.
nyal > thaal - hang.
nyal > thaal > thali = the ornament that hangs round the bride's neck or wive's neck.
nyal > nyalam = the earth, that hangs in the space!! our planet.
kathir - rays that travel a certain path.
kathiravan - sun, that which emits rays to the earth.
KooLam §¸¡Çõ - a ball or a ball-like thing.
KooL §¸¡û a heavenyly body or planet. something round!!
Tamils used the word that has two meanings to refer to a planet. As kooLam > kooL, it means a body which is round. From koL > kooL, it also means a receipient ( of light ).
¦¸¡û > §¸¡û ( §Å§È¡Ã¢¼ò¾¢Ä¢ÕóÐ (ÝâÂÉ¢¼ò¾¢ÕóÐ ) ´Ç¢¨Âô ¦ÀüÚ즸¡ûÅÐ ).
§¸¡Çõ > §¸¡û, ÀóÐ §À¡ýÈÐ.
¬¸§Å, ´Ç¢¦ÀÚõ ÀóÐ §À¡ýȾ¡Ìõ. þôÀÊ þÕ¦À¡ÕûÀÎõ ¦º¡ø¨Ä ¯ñ¼¡ì¸¢ÔûÇÉ÷.
- From: A P MASILAMANI (@ cache202.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Sep 5 10:13:49 EDT 2004
After the creation of such words, someone might have used the word in his poem or writings in an incongruous manner, inconsistent with its eymological meaning. That does not affect the etymological meaning.
Another point:
§¸¡û ¿¢¨Ä ¾¢Ã¢óÐ §¸¡¨¼ ¿£ÊÛõ
¾¡ý ¿¢¨Ä ¾¢Ã¢Â¡ ¾ñ¼Á¢úô À¡¨Å
- Á½¢§Á¸¨Ä.
§¸¡û¸Ç¢ø ²ÈÀÎõ Á¡üÈí¸û, ÀÕŸ¡Äí¸¨Çô À¡¾¢ìÌõ ±ýÚ ¿¢¨Éò¾¡÷¸û.
- From: A P MASILAMANI (@ cache202.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Sep 5 10:22:06 EDT 2004
Also:
ul > ur > uruL > urundai.
See how it derived.
These were explained by Paavaanar and the ancient Tamil wisdom and sc knowledge is explicit.
- From: A P MASILAMANI (@ cache202.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Sep 5 10:34:14 EDT 2004
//'nimithakam[sothidam]' wrong. Did nimithakam was practised by Thamizhans? //
Well, there were people practising it; otherwise ILango could not have proved it wrong. Sankappulavar KaNiyan Puunkuntranaar was a chothidar!!
//Or it was introduced? If it was practised then how come we have it all in Sanskirit?//
Original Tamil and Dravidian versions were translated into Skrt. Originals became disused and defunct. It was considered a good act to throw away old olaichchuvadi into the river on Aadip Perukku!!
Besides the translations into Skrt, the Skrt language also copied much of jothidam from the Greeks to enrich their collection. Words in Skrt like paNaparam, aabokleebam are Greek words.
- From: A P MASILAMANI (@ cache202.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Sep 5 11:25:01 EDT 2004
//claiming Telugu existed before Thamizh.//
Existed is not the correct word to use. He should have spoken about the earliest work in literature found in Telugu.
The earliest extant work in Telugu belongs roughly to A.D. 1050. But Tolkaapiyam belongs to BCE. So it is clear that Tamil has the oldest extant work. Furthermore, Tolkaappiyam is a grammar and for such a grammar to be published at the time, there must have been written work from which the rules are extracted and explained. Tokkaappiyam itself refers to predecessors and other grammarians before him though not mentioned by name.
Such claims are made by others partly because our own Tamil professor S Vaiyapuri Pillai made mistakes and wrongly dated Tolkaappiyam and Kural to later than 600 AD. He was corrected by other scholars but some damage has been done by him and his followers. Vaiyapuri Pillai learnt Tamil from Maraimalai Adigal but for some reason he went against his own master and messed up the dates.Without going into root words, he began comparing words with Skrt dictionary and ended up saying this is Skrt, that is Skrt!! He still has his adherents, I believe. For his pro-Skrt policies and ideology, he should have been promoted to VC of Madras U, but became sick and d. But he had served Tamil in other ways.
- From: A P MASILAMANI (@ cache202.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Sep 5 11:38:15 EDT 2004
Be that as it may, Telugu is one of the oldest Dravidian languages and certain word forms in Telugu could be older and precedent to Tamil. Telugu word forms could be key to understanding Tamil and even variations of meanings of words.
Variations within Telugu itself could be useful for Dr etymology and its comparison with Tamil could help us to track down some word forms in Tamil so that the roots of words are ascertained.
Some word forms in Tolkaapiyam could not be explained by study of Tamil alone; the researchers had found the missing links in the Dravidian languages of the Ganges plain.
We treasure all Dravidian languages!! You do not know when one or the other will become useful.
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