Topic suggested by chandra on Thu Feb 18 20:04:56 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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The world of Tamil lietrature is full of interesting details about the life of Tamil poets, famous or obscure, of any era. For example,
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Responses:
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Feb 18 20:25:45
uRuvai:
A poetess. One of ThiruvaLLuvar's sisters.
Immediately on her birth, she is said to have sung
the following veNpA addressing her mother:
"
chaNtappaik kuLLuyirthan thAyarun-thath thAnarun-thum
aNtath thuyirpizaippa(thu) Achchariyam - maNti
alaikinRa annAy aranutaiya uNmai
n-ilaikaNtu n-IyaRin-thu n-il."
The first two adis with separation of words:
"chaNatp paikkuL uyir thAy arun-thath thAn arun-thum;
aNtaththu uyir pizaippathu Achchariyam."
Contrasts the viability of foetus inside the womb
and the baby once it is outside.
annAy = annaiyE; aran = sivan.
uRuvai's history is said to be mentioned in "vaLLIyammai
n-Atakam", "vaLLIyammai purANam", "thiruvaLLUvar chariththiram"
etc.
Source: "piRkAlap pulavargaL"
published by UVS Iyer Library, 1986.
chandra
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Fri Feb 19 14:03:42
As for the above veNpA attributed to uRuvai, it seems to be strange that
the sanskrit word "Achchariyam" would have been
used at that time.
kALamEkam:
When he was visiting some Kan-thappan (Murugan) temple near Madurai,
he was insulted
by a son of one n-Achchiyappach chetti. That son apparently was
the second of the three sons of the above chetti.
kALamEkam is said to have sung this veNpA in anger and
later on, that second son apparently was crushed when the maNtapam
collapsed on him.
nAchchiyappach chettiyenROr n-attuvAR kAlikkuk
kUrchchiyamA mUnRu kotukkuntu - vAchcha
kataikkotukkum muRkotukkum kan-thappA thaLLi
n-atukkotukkaik kallAl n-arukku.
n-attuvARkAli = a scorpion+crab cross-like species.
kUrchchiyam = ?;
kotukku = son; vAchcha = vAyththa(?);
katai = last; muR kotukku = first son;
kan-thappa = Muruga; thaLLi = excepting;
n-arukku = crush [note: this word with the idaiyinam "r"
is different from n-aRukku = split/mince].
"Kan-thappa! of the three sons of n-Achchiyappa chetti,
excepting the first and teh last son, crush the middle one."
Source: ibid.
chandra
- From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Mon Feb 22 00:20:44
ibid??
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Mon Feb 22 10:40:19
ibid < ibidem = in the same place.
It is common shorthand uses in humanities literature to say the same reference as cites for the
previous one ( a stateful scheme as opposed to the
stateless scheme which would assign numbers to the
members of a list of reference and refer to that number).
Here I meant the same book as for uRuvai.
chandra
- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Mar 2 19:19:51
Ҁ ŻƑ
촳 -
̍ ŗ 㐙
ƀ̴ .
- ע ף Ƒ
(mid 18th century)
chaRRE thuvaiyalarai thampiyoru pachchativai
vaRRal EthEnum vaRuththuvai - kuRRamilai
kaayamittuk kIraikatai kammenavE miLakuk
kaayaraiththu vaippaay kaRi.
; maathavach chivanyaana yOkikaL
[courtesy N.Ganesan, Houston]
- From: babu (@ 198.153.135.42)
on: Wed Mar 3 14:00:05
chandra, I dont understand this line -
kaayamittuk kIraikatai kammenavE.
Can you explain ?
- From: Reka (@ atl-qbu-zpb-vty163.as.wcom.net)
on: Wed Mar 3 19:54:41
babu,
"kaayam" refers to "perungaayam" or asafoetida.
Chandra, please confirm.
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Mar 4 14:12:58
Babu & Reka,
I did not have access to the meaning of the veNpA. Your guess seems to be very relevant and
accurate.
Babu, the "kammenavE" goes with the following clause rather than with "kAyamittuk kIraikatai".
I do not know exactly what "kammenavE" means.
It is like what we say in colloquial YTamil
"gummenRu"?
Since the author is some "siva yOgi"-type poet,
I would guess that there ought to be a philosophical side to this veNpA.
Like kAyam means "body" as is the case with
kALamEkam' veNpA posted by aruLarasan on the
veNpA thread.
I request aruL to post the meaning of that
veNpA.
- From: Chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Fri Mar 12 19:01:16
some "do-undo" veNpA pairs:
What is a "do-undo" veNpA pair?
There have been quite a few situations where a great poet
sang a veNpA in some unhappy state to effect certain wishes
and the situation changes for the better and he had to undo
the effect of the previously sung veNpA with another veNpA.
The interesting thing was that the veNpAs in the pair were
very similar to each other with clever substitutions of
the words in the "do" veNpA.
One incident:
thirumazicai AzvAr's "kaNi kaNNan" do-undo veNpA pair.
The background...
kachchi (kAnjchipuram). one of thirumazicaiyAzvar's close disciples was
also a poet and was composing poems on the thirumAl
to help ordinary citizens. The king at that time tried to force kaNikaNNAn
to sing in praise of him too, which was promptly refused by kaNikaNNan
which in turn infuriated the king who ordered kaNikaNNan exiled.
tirumazicai said he would quite kAnjchi too alongwith kaNikaNNan
and did not want thirumAl (I do not right now here at work
have the book that has the decription of this epipsode specifying
which of the dozen deities of kachchi was involved; varatarAcap perumAL is
is one of the most famous) also to leave with him.
So he sang the following "do" veNpA:
Ͼ
ׯ ׯ - ڀ
˟Ϫ .
= = ݎ (pretty); = ;
= (hood);
= ʹ
(the bed provided by AthicEtan).
" ; ;
kaNikaNNan pOkinRaan kaamarupUng kachchi
maNivaNNaa n-Ikitakka vENtaa - thuNivutaiya
chen-n-aap pulavanum pOkinREn n-IyumunRan
pain-n-aakap paaychuruttik koL.
kaamaru = kaamar = azakiya (pretty); kachchi = kaanjchipuram;
pai = patam (hood);
pain-n-aakap paay = patam viriththa aathichEtan patukkai
(the bed provided by AthicEtan).
At the AzvAr's behest, thirumAl also left kachchi with him as the
result of which kachchi lost its cheer and splendor suddenly
which made the king realize his mistake and reached the place
where thehe apologized to and pleaded with kaNikaNNan and
thirumazicai to return to kachchi which they obliged
and the AzvAr sang the following to thirumAl to return
to kachchi along with them:
the "undo" veNpA:
Ͼ
ׯ ׯ - ڀ
ʹ .
kaNikaNNan pOkkozin-thaan kaamarupUng kachchi
maNivaNNaa n-Ikitakka vENtum - thuNivutaiya
chen-n-aap pulavanum pOkkozin-thEn n-IyumunRan
pain-n-aakap paayviriththuk koL.
The meaning of which should be obvious but the
beautify of which is amazing.
thirumAl obliged, again and kachchi got back its
splendor and all.
Chandra
- From: JayBee (@ sp-69-30.tm.net.my)
on: Sat Mar 27 03:27:37
From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com) on: Thu Mar 4 14:12:58
Babu & Reka,
I did not have access to the meaning of the veNpA. Your guess seems to be very relevant and
accurate.
Babu, the "kammenavE" goes with the following clause rather than with "kAyamittuk kIraikatai".
I do not know exactly what "kammenavE" means.
It is like what we say in colloquial YTamil
"gummenRu"?
Since the author is some "siva yOgi"-type poet, I would guess that there ought to be a philosophical side to this veNpA.
Like kAyam means "body" as is the case with
-----cut
In this instance, kammenave is as you have suggested. "gam" enavE.
This munivar has sung some verses casually like the one he was addressing the girl selling salt in Thiruk Kaattup PaLLi. Or when they were served kuRuNaichORu rice by a cook from Coimbatore.That was when he was a junior swamigaL in one of the Matams undergoing training.
"Kaayam" in this particular verse means Asafoetida alone. This verse does not have philosophical connotations. I think you are having the other poem in mind.....
VengAyam chukkAnAl vendhayaththAl Avadhenna.....
Is it?
JayBee
- From: Chandra (@ user-38lc9mk.dialup.mindspring.com)
on: Sat Mar 27 22:43:30
Yes jb ...That veNpA was posted by aruL recently on the veNpA thread.
I am disappointed that there wasn't more to this veNpA :-(
chandra
- From: JayBee (@ sp-69-189.tm.net.my)
on: Sat Mar 27 23:21:01
That veNba does have very deep meanings.
I wrote the Tamil commentary in Tamil.net two years ago.I'll see if I can translate my version in English:-)
JayBee
- From: JayBee (@ sp-69-95.tm.net.my)
on: Mon Mar 29 09:43:34
כ ƴ ח Ͽ ̙? - ̍ , ϛ! ̍ Ƒ!
vengAyam chukkAnAl vendhayaththAl Avadhenna?
inggAr sumandhiruppAr ichcharakkai? - manggAdha
sIragaththaith thandhIrEl, thEdEn perunggAyam!
Eragaththuch cettiyArE!
This was a verse written in Siddhar cryptography.
Many of the Tamil poets themselves Siddhars to certain extents.
Siddhars and Rishis held various typse of doctrines, objectives, practices, and philosophy.
Some of the Siddhars prepare the body to be free from senility and disease and attain longevity. But some wanted to attain immortality.
Through many types of diet control, Hatha Yoga, RajaYoga, Samaadhi state, and elixirs they prepare the body. This process is known as "kAya Siddhi"or "kAya kalpam".
"kAyam" means body.
There are many drugs which are used for "kAyakalpam".
The drugs vIram, pUram, and ayam are some among them.
"ayam" means iron.
> Iron is oxidised and made into the various oxides.
Among them, the most important one is "chendhUram" which is the red oxide of iron-ferric oxide.
"vendha ayam" is iron heated with fire-roasted or fried or cooked iron. That is oxidisation process for making chendhUram.
There are other types of Siddhars and rishis. They just do what they came to do here. Having completed the task set for them, they will go back to where they wanted to go.
PattinaththAr, ramaNar, paramahamsa were such like people. They would feel that the body is burden. They would feel sad that they have to carry a body that has to be carried by four people(in the last journey).
This verse is composed as if it had been sung by one such Siddhar.
venggAyam = empty, shell-like body
chukku = dried ginger. among the condimants, chukku is most capable of being unspoiled for a very long time. It is found intact in the 5000 year-old pyramids.
venggAyam becoming chukku = ordinary body attaining kAyasiddhi by means of kAyakalpam.
venda ayaththAl Avadhu enna? = what can drugs like chendhUram acheive?
However, what is the use of dwelling in the body for such a very long time. Its only an uncalled for burden. Is'nt it?
So,
inggAr(inggu yaar) sumandhiruppAr ichcharakkai?
Whoever will want to bear the burden of this goods(the body)?
Eragaththuch chettiyArE!
Eragam is Suvami malai.
Murugan is also called as "chettiyAr.
Siva is addressed as "chettiyappan"-"the Father of Chetti" by Sundarar.
Arunagirinathar also addresses Murugan as "chetti".
sIragam = sIr agam = mOksha
peruggAyam = denotes the numerous bodies taken in a lot of births.
If Murugan bestows Moksha, then births need not be taken at all.
The poem sound as if it addresses a sundry shop chettiyAr.
JayBee
- From: babu (@ 198.153.135.42)
on: Mon Mar 29 10:34:15
That was great, thanks JayBee
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