Topic suggested by aruLarasan on Wed Nov 11 01:33:23 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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Here we go. The IRRadi I propose is http://www.crhc.uiuc.edu/~balaji/venpa.txt |
Responses:
- Old responses
- From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Thu Feb 18 03:19:40
digression:
chandra, i sent a mail to u.. at chandra.periannan@delta-air.com.. bounced back twice.. unga email id maariduthaa?
anyway, here is the gist:
chandra, aasiriyappa thread onnu open pannungalEn. adhuvum "oru kai"
paakkarEn;-)) i am interested in learning its rules also.
bye
balaji
From: chandra (@ user-38lcfkp.dialup.mindspring.com) on: Wed Feb 17
23:15:27
Balaji,
When I reached the last stanza of your
salad kavidhai which has akaval Osai dominated by
Asiriyath thaLai (mA mun nEr mostly),
I was struck by the change in cadence
especially when I hit the word(or sIr) "mattum"
and was reminded of n-Erisai Asiriyappa
which has three sIrs in the penultimate adi..............
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Feb 18 11:02:10
Balaji,
The guys here changed my email address to conform to the real order of my subnames whence it is now:
periannan.chandrasekaran@delta-air.com
Yeah let us start an AsiriyappA thread too.
When I read you saalad poem, you had
unconsciously got some nErisai Asiriyam-like
product. That also gave me insight into how
these different types of pAs were eveolved from
practical life instead of the conjuring them artificially.
chandra
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Feb 18 19:15:36
Balaji,
I checked with the "piRkAlap pulavargaL" book by
u.vE.sA. Iyer for dating kALamEkam . It does not give any specific year
explicitly. But from the notes there, it seems to be around 300+ years ago.
UVS Iyer reports notes from discussion with
one "Sri RAma Iyer" in the town of "chiththAmpUr".
That Sirama Iyer says:
"kALamEkam was a chOziyap pirAmaNar. When he returned with rewards by ThirumalairAyan, he stayed at chiththAmpUr. He built 24 houses and gave away 23 of them to other brahmins and kept one for his residence. My forefathers were one of those recipients; it must have been only about 10 generations before me. He even composed poems on the local piLLaiyAr (chiththAmpUr chivanozin-tha piLLaiyAr)".
Since UVS must have been doing all this around the
century transition (19th/20th), taking one genration to be about 20+ years or so, we get 300+ years.
Let me post some more veNpAs by him.
chandra
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Feb 18 19:48:08
kALamEkam:
kALamEkam:
When kALamEkam visited a town called
"kOmal" and asked the vaiNavars there for kOvil
thIrththam ("thIrththam tharuka"), they insolently
replied "kokku vEkumpatip pAtu" ("sing such that the heron boils") and kALamEkam, angeredby this response, sang the following poem:
veNpA on kOmalam
ANtavanE thillai yampalavA vakkaravam
pUNtavanE yenvAkkup poyyAthu - n-INta
kozungkokku vEkumO kOma lakaram
ozungkukku vEkumuN mai.
padham piriththu:
ANtavanE thillai ampalavA akk(u) aravam
pUNtavanE envAkkup poyyAthu - n-INta
kozung kokku vEkumO kOmalakaram
ozungkukku vEkum uNmai.
The aftermath of this song:
The town is said to have suffered a decline from then
on and it is now referred to as "kuttich chuvark kOmal"
about 6 miles south of kuRRAlam town in mAyUram taluk.
There is no direct meaning given in the book.
The following is my explanation of portions of the pA:
amapalam = dance hall;
the first 3 sIrs refer specifically
to Chidambaram sivan;
akku = eye or rudrAksha bead (from OTL);
pUNtavan
aravam = snake; pUn = to wear; pUNtavan = wearer;
kozum kokku = healthy crane/heron.
It is not immediately clear what the precise meaning of the
phrases of the last adi.
ozungku = behavior/character;
He seems to say "kOmal will be destroyed in accordance
with its character. This is true".
Such is the power of the words of the old Tamil poets.
More later.
Maybe a thread called
" pazham pulavargaL " or something like that
would be good.
Chandra
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Thu Feb 18 19:52:08
kOmalakaram = kOmal + akaram;
akaram = town, house, brahmin street.
[as per otl
http://www.uni-koeln.de/phil-fak/indologie/tamil/otl_search.html]
chandra
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Fri Feb 19 07:49:20
sorry if i am a bit late in posting this veNpa:
thisai ettumpORRum engaL thalaivanaam
isai gnaani thinamidugiraar sevikkuvirunthu
uNdathOr parukkaik kulakeedillai rasigan
kandathOr uNami ithu
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Fri Feb 19 07:50:08
pls read uNami as uNmai
- From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Fri Feb 19 14:07:58
nejamaavE paattu paadinaa naadu azhiyudhaa? ennaala namba mudiyallai.
hi cram, long time no see!
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Sat Feb 20 10:49:31
hi bb
yenna, sowkyama?
- From: bb (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Sun Feb 21 02:01:01
cram: nalam, nalam ariya aaval. ippadi sevikkuvirunthu-nnu 4 adi sIr pOttirukkeengaLE.
- From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Sun Feb 21 02:02:15
cram: veNpA rules are here:
http://www.crhc.uiuc.edu/~balaji/venpa.txt
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Mon Feb 22 06:06:12
mannikka vEndugiren, bb
intha siruvanin aRiyaamaiyai poruththaruLavEndum.
thanks a ton, balaji, shall srick to the rules before attempting any veNbaas from now on.
- From: cram (@ 206.103.12.102)
on: Mon Feb 22 06:06:24
mannikka vEndugiren, bb
intha siruvanin aRiyaamaiyai poruththaruLavEndum.
thanks a ton, balaji, shall stick to the rules before attempting any veNbaas from now on.
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Mon Feb 22 17:55:36
Cram! Don't be discouraged; we are pleased to have
you join us in composing veNpAs.
Folks:
Compose a veNpA with at least four instances of the word
"chilampu" ("silambu") employed in at the least the following
four different senses:
1. to resound, to reverberate or to echo:
[ThirumurukARRuppatai:
"cIr thikaz chilampakam chilampap pAti"
meaning:
"azakOtu poliyum malaich chAralgaL ethorilikkum patip pAti"]
2. malaich chAral or hill-side
[Murugu:
"n-aLi malaich chilampin n-annagar vAzththi"
meaning:
"kuLirn-tha (or vaLam cheRin-tha) malaich chAralil amain-tha
nalla UrkaLai vAzththi"]
3. anklet [CilappathikAram: "kaiyil thanich chilampum"]
4. the book "cilappatthikAram"
and
having that veNpA end in the sIr "chilampu".
Balaji, that should keep your mind away from inquiring too deep into
kALamEkam's feats.
chandra
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Feb 23 16:28:49
¯®Å à ÃÅ ª¨× Ë
צÚÅ Ï í ª¥ þÆ
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Tue Feb 23 16:55:30
That was intended to test viewing of Tamil fonts.
I apologize for forgetting to add a note to it.
Balaji,
I think you did not bracket your Tamil font text
with html tags.
- From: babu (@ 198.153.135.42)
on: Wed Feb 24 10:18:41
À Ò¢ ÒÅ»ò íìÅ °¯®¥Ö ²¯¥
° Ò¢ ÒÅ»ò µ Æ þÆÿ - Ø ÒÀ °Ñ
º ò ÒÅ»ò º¯ ÒÅ»Ö Ùâ¹° Ì íéþ°ò ?
ò µ¤ Å ° þî ÒŽ !
À Ò¢ ÒŽ - À Ò¢ ÌÖ
° Ò¢ ÒŽ - ½ â ºíé Ò¿º± ÌÅ
º ò ÒŽ - ° ´±î Ò À í ÒŽ
º¯ ÒŽ - Å Ó
ÒŽ -
À Ò¢ ÌÓò íìÅ °ò äѹ° ¥ Ò ²¯¥ ° í½ Ì Æ î
½ â ºíé Ò¿º± Ì ¸ Óò µ Æ Æ î ¯« þÆ ! ÿ,
Ø ÒÀ °×è À °ØÇò ° í ÒÅ»Ö ×ÏÅ þº òé
ÓÇÖ ÀÆ À îŠݹ° þ ×Ò î ò ¯¨Å íé Ë ?
( ³ ½ÍÆ °° Ö) ò ÀîÅ î ÏÅ Æ þ° òì é³.
- From: balaji (@ schubert.crhc.uiuc.edu)
on: Wed Feb 24 10:40:16
balaji to babu ( as in aboorva sagotharargaL):
"sir, neenga engEyO pOyitteenga"!!
a good usage indeed!!
oru thaLai kuttal: kARRum thaNNudal...
- From: babu (@ 198.153.135.42)
on: Wed Feb 24 10:53:24
ada kadavule ! how did I miss that ? okay make it ...
À Ò¢ ÒÅ»ò íé³Å °¯®¥Ö ²¯¥
° Ò¢ ÒÅ»ò µ Æ þÆÿ - Ø ÒÀ °Ñ
º ò ÒÅ»ò º¯ ÒÅ»Ö Ùâ¹° Ì íéþ°ò ?
ò µ¤ Å ° þî ÒŽ !
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Feb 24 12:16:22
Babu,
I second Balaji (on the "engEyO pOtiyyInga" part
not the "thalai kuttal" part).
I realized that "requiring the sense of
"cilapparthikAram" also would be too
restrictive and difficult to allow variations.
May be we can do without that sense as a requirment.
Anyway, does cilampu also mean cave?
Good show, Babu.
I think "kARRathuvum" or "kARRathUum"
íé³ÚÅ
íé³ Å
(with iyir
aLapedai) was intended there. athu + um = athum is
not a known sandhi.
Also
¥ ¥Úþã
I would suggest that for the convenience of those
who do not have access to the Murasu font eitehr
temporarily or permamently, we post a transliterated version as we have been doing before.
chandra
- From: babu (@ 198.153.135.42)
on: Wed Feb 24 13:54:28
Chandra, I dont understand what you mean by :
I realized that "requiring the sense of
"cilapparthikAram" also would be too
restrictive and difficult to allow variations. !
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Feb 24 14:02:09
What I meant was that by requiring that cilappathikAram also be used, it might greatly
restrict the freedom of the veNpA composer in
choosing the theme. Then most poems would endup
looking very similar.
- From: chandra (@ viking.delta-air.com)
on: Wed Feb 24 14:07:07
Babu,
MAdhavi was not a vilai mAthu. She was born into
a family of danseuses (or kaNikaiyar kulam).
But she herself never was (the "but" means "assuming it was accurate to associate "liberated behavior" with women from such families").
A perennial favorite for patti manRam topics
is "kaRpiR chiRan-thavaL kaNNAkiyA mAthaviyA?".
chandra
- From: babu (@ 198.153.135.42)
on: Wed Feb 24 14:53:22
Chandra,
Frankly I do not know the story of silappadhikaaram fully, except what was taught to me by the celluliod versions.
Sorry mAdhavi, for casting aspersions on you, pardon me.
mAdhavi was born a vilai mAdhu or not redundant.
:-)
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