Topic started by KuttyKarthik on Tue Nov 30 22:48:37 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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How do u rate the work of the sithars?.I feel that apart from their nihilistic views their command of language and the power/meaning of the words has not been matched in any other form.
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Responses:
- Old responses
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.159)
on: Fri Jan 7 17:52:14 EST 2000
>>>>>From: murug (@ 131.241.26.63) on: Fri Jan 7 10:57:35 EST 2000
Is 'summa'iruppadhu and 'Sthithaprakjna' (Nilaiththa manam) mentioned in Bagawath Geetha one and the same? <<<<<
"Summaa iruppathu" is a state where the annihilation of the mind takes place.
Its a state of samaadhi.
"Sthitha Prajnya" is a mature state of self-control where you perceive everything with equanimity.
Although many parts of Gita describe the facets for that state, chapter 6 on Dyana Yoga describes it concisely.
An example:
Without having attachment to the relatives and friends with whom you have to fight, you just fight a war and kill if necessary, as a bound duty.
Your mind does not get clogged with raagaas like passion, love, attachment, etc.
That is one facet of the state of "Sthitha Prajnya".
- From: KK (@ netcachesyd2.ozemail.com.au)
on: Fri Jan 7 22:49:17 EST 2000
Jay bee
Can you explain sithu in the context
Saat Sith Anandam
- From: murugan (@ 131.241.26.63)
on: Sat Jan 8 11:12:54 EST 2000
Thanks Dr.Jay Bee. Mahakavi Bharathi translates Stitha Prajnan as 'Nilaiththa manam udayon'. I think it should be in sync with what you were kind enough to explain.
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.4)
on: Sat Jan 8 17:58:46 EST 2000
This is in furtherance to "prajnya".
The word "prajnya" alone also means one of the components of states of consciousness.
The states of consciousness are Jagrath, shushupthi,swapna, thurya, and thuryaadhiitha. In Tamil, they are called sakkiratham, sulzhuththi, kanaa, thuriyam, and thuriyaathiitham.
The factor "prajnya" is present in jagrath, shushupthi, and swapna.
It is absent in thuriyam.
When you are fully awake, you are aware -"prajnya" is present.
In the swapna state, you dream. Unless you forget, you are aware of the dream. When you wake up, you can remember the dream.
Here again, the prajnya is present.
In the shushupthi state, you are in deep sleep.
But when you wake up, you say that you slept well.
Hence you are aware that you were sleeping and aware of the quality of the sleep, because you say that you slept well.
That is "prajnya" again.
Thuriyam is the state of "Summa".
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.4)
on: Sat Jan 8 18:02:29 EST 2000
I'll come back to the other two queries -Sat Chit Anandham and the correlation between siddhi and summa.
- From: murugan (@ 131.241.26.63)
on: Sun Jan 9 13:19:28 EST 2000
Thanks JayBee. You wrote
" In the swapna state, you dream. Unless you forget, you are aware of the dream. When you wake up, you can remember the dream".
I am reminded of this Zen parable:
The Zen guru was sitting silent which was quite unusual of him. One of the disciples asked him the reason. The Guru said, "Last night when I slept, I dreamt that I became a monkey. I, the monkey jumped down the trees, played in the lush greens, ate ripe fruits, drank cool river water and when tired, slept under the shade of a tree".
The disciple told that was all fine but still did not explain the Guru's unusual quiteness.
The Guru then said, "I'm confused.. this moment when I speak and you listen.. does it happen in reality or is it occuring in the monkey's dream?"
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.244)
on: Sun Jan 9 21:52:47 EST 2000
Yes. Thats a real story. The Zen master actually dreamt that he was a butterfly flitting through the leaves. He asked whether it was his dream of having been a butterfly or is it the butterfly's dream of being a Zen master?.
Its something like the Loga Maya story involving Naradha and Krishna.
One day Narada and Krishna were walking along in a forest.
During the journey, Narada was asking Krishna to explain what is this "Loga Maya" of Krishna, all about? What is so great about it? And he(Narada) being a Brahmaputra and Rishi, can never be subdued by such maya because he was immune to it. Krishna smiled and kept silent.
After some time Narada was asked by Krishna to bring some water from a river.
Naradha accordingly goes to the river to fetch the water. There he meets a most beautiful damsel. He falls in love and follows her to her house. One thing leads to another and finally he marries her. He gets involved in samsaara life; earns a living, has children. Things go very smoothly for many years.
Suddenly the place where Naradha stays, is invaded and people get killed. He runs with his family.
But soon plague and hunger kill off his kinsmen and some children.
One day, during his flight, he and the remaining family are chased by robbers.
They run. But soon they are stopped by a river. The river was flooded. But the family gets down into the river to escape. They are all washed away.
Narada alone remains. Forelornly he looks at the river and hangs around. The flood subsides.
But seeing none of his family around, Narada squats down, breaks down, and laments and cries his heart out.
Suddenly, he hears a voice", Hey Narada! Whats this? Why are you crying and lamenting? I only sent you to fetch some water a few hours ago. I came to see what held you up? What took you so long?"
Narada looked up, startled, and the said," To understand your logamaya, O Krishna!".
- From: ananth (@ pc-ananthanarayanan-v1.chemistry.mcmaster.ca)
on: Thu Jan 13 15:07:36 EST 2000
JB: I tried to send the following (in InaimathiTSC font) to you by email several times but it didn't work. So I am posting it here. (I was, and still am, hesistant to post it directly in this thread since it may be an unwanted digression from your beautiful exposition of the siththarkaL philosophy).
þ : Ȣ ؾ ը¡ и ú . ٨ ġ '' Ţ Ţ áâ. Ȣ ټ ռ ŢҸ. ӾĢ, ʸ, " ! ոŢħ" Ģ Ţ, "ġ 츢ġ ɢ¡ ǡ" ž , Ч Ţ ھ Ǣиȡ. ¢ ¢ ġ ž, м ¡ Ţθ, ɧ Ƹ . սâ, ҸƢ ⾢ Ȣ (ո ¢):
"(ո) ֧ Ȣħ" ǡ Ĩ ս츢ȡ. ¢ "" ¢ â Ţ¡ Ţ ոȡ. , , , ġ Ƣ ( Ȣ) ġ . ȡ, Ŧȡ ɢ¡ . ġ, Ȣ "" ġ Ȣš ""/Ƣ ( ġ ), ¢ " Ȣħ" սâ¡ ڸȡ.
- From: KK (@ netcachesyd2.ozemail.com.au) on: Thu Jan 13 17:41:13 EST 2000
This is a link to the
works of pattinathar...http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6166/patti2.html
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.187) on: Thu Jan 13 17:46:44 EST 2000
The whole article on "Summaa iruththal" is found in the following URL. It all started off as discussion about Madras Baashai by Aravindan in Tamil.net list about three years ago.
It branched off into this discourse.
Hope you enjoy it and above all I wish that it is useful.
http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Choir/4262/summa.html
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.187) on: Thu Jan 13 18:03:29 EST 2000
>>>>>From: ananth (@ pc-ananthanarayanan-v1.chemistry.mcmaster.ca) on: Thu Jan 13 15:07:36 EST 2000
JB: I tried to send the following (in InaimathiTSC font) to you by email several times but it didn't work. So I am posting it here. (I was, and still am, hesistant to post it directly in this thread since it may be an unwanted digression from your beautiful exposition of the siththarkaL philosophy). <<<<<<<<<
Its not a digression at all. In fact, it is complimentary to the thread and allows to expand and become more accessible and approachable. Otherwise, Siddhar philosophy would seem to be very remote and out of reach for normal people.
And thanks for you appreciation.
- From: JayBee (@ 202.188.135.214) on: Sun Jan 16 17:23:11 EST 2000
>>>From: KK (@ netcachesyd2.ozemail.com.au) on: Fri Jan 7 22:49:17 EST 2000
Jay bee
Can you explain sithu in the context
Saat Sith Anandam<<<
Its actually "Sath Chith Aanandham".
The words "Siddhi or siththu" and "Chith" are different.
Hence their meanings are also different.
To simplify it "Sath Chit Aananndham" is a statemant of revelation of the Eternal Truth.
Siththu or siddhi is just "power".
When you embark on the path for the realisation of Truth, the Siddhic powers come as by-product, as you advance.
That is why many Grand Masters consider siddhis as diversions.
The siddhis can make a person stop in his tracks and be absorbed in the siddhis. The siddhis can be great instruments of temptation. They will tempt a person to experiment with them; use them; many a times use them for self-appeasement and glory. They may lure the person to go in search of more siddhis.
Finally the the "siddhar" is entrapped and lost in his own affairs.
The world has lost many a real Brahma jnani in this way.
- From: ̑ (@ 205.177.170.123) on: Tue Jan 18 10:21:55 EST 2000
:
Ϲ ̴ ґ . ҙ. ˴ϙэ!
- From: KK (@ netcachesyd2.ozemail.com.au) on: Tue Jan 18 17:34:24 EST 2000
Jaybee,
The URL which you have referred was very helpfull in getting a full fledged understanding of "SUMMA"
What does the saying "Sithan POOku SIvan POOKU"
means ?.If siddhi is a diversion is Anandam or Paramanandham the ultimate thing?
When we see some of the sayings of siddhars it looks as if they have reached the stage where they have have realised the ultimate.
Natta Kallum pesumo Nathan Ull IrukkayilA?
- From: KK (@ netcachesyd2.ozemail.com.au) on: Thu Jan 13 17:41:13 EST 2000
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