Topic started by V. Venkataramanan on Thu Jun 3 23:07:29 .
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- From: venkataramanan (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp)
on: Thu Jun 10 05:58:21
Surprised. I have the following settings:
(I use navigator, explorer should not be very diff).
Under edit > Preferences > fonts > proportional width (one of the TSCII fonts, I use aparanarTSC)
Under view > character set > user defined
That's it. You should be able to see. Still have probelm, I can mail to you. I have tested with other TSC fonts too. If you c&P under murasu editor, change to TSC fonts
- From: chandy (@ 209.125.83.228)
on: Thu Jun 10 13:15:24
hey, i am not able to read the stuff. All that i can see is junk in my screen. can someone help? Is there any way to convert these into murasu font??
chandy
- From: Ramji (@ 205.177.170.60)
on: Thu Jun 10 14:30:44
copy and paste in Murasu Editor, go to "Edit" choose "select all" and then change the font to "Inaimathi TSC". Bingo!
- From: bb (@ inehou-pxy06.compaq.com)
on: Thu Jun 10 17:28:54
read atlast.. third standardlle general proficiency kedakkallai, second in classnnu azhudhundu schoolle irundhu veettukku vandhadhu thaan gnaabagam varudhu:-)))))
- From: Manivannan (@ pc-242-178.corp.3com.com)
on: Thu Jun 10 22:59:20
Dear Venkat,
A good first effort. If I were your editor, I would have asked you to think a little more about your message. I am not sure if you wanted portray the narrator as an immature, paranoid, or flawed human being. Most of us are. But you can still treat the subject with some humor with subtle undercurrents of disappointment.
Your narrator comes across as a self-centered individual whining about his disappointments. Even the concluding paragraph does not show his maturity or wisdom that comes from repeated disappointments.
If you wanted to say "Life is not fair", it doesn't come through. Did the narrator seek the prizes as rewards or as recognition for his achievement? Did he recognize that some of these are mere inducements to perform and are far more effective on some individuals than others?
Childhood disappointments seem to have left a scar on the narrator rather than make him wise. Despite the repeated disappointments (or because of them), the narrator seems to have done well in life. He can afford to chuckle at the past and look forward to the future. His attitude that all prizes are rigged and his aversion to all of them at the end shows a bitter individual. As a reader, I come away disappointed, unable to empathize with the narrator or sympathize with him.
If you get a chance, read a wonderful short story "The Necklace" by Guy de Maupassant. His characters are ordinary, flawed human beings, full of greed and suffer unfair disappointments. Years after reading that story, I still remember it. You could have written this story in a manner that still brings out the pathos but allow the narrator to conquer his past disappointments. Instead of a laundry list of disappointments, you would have written a powerful story. But that comes with experience and working with good editors. You have talent. Now you can work on your craft. Good Luck,
Mani M. Manivannan
- From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp)
on: Fri Jun 11 01:18:23
Dear mani,
A good analysis. I get benefited. Thanks. Lemme put my views. The narrator is a very very ordinary, next door guy. You can observe that the constant achievements, despite not being lucky getting them, makes him say it's ok. The narration is a just after-the-dinner rambling of a curious character. Just one word parisu evokes a string of thoughts. He does not want any great reward or lottery, but he just ponders over how so near and yet so far from them throughout his life. The story is not message centered (IMHO, every story need not have message), just like someone narrates an incident (here it is a set of connected incidents, spanning though a life), no judgements sought or passed. the portrayal of the narrator is attempted such that it is impossible for the reader to pass judgement if he is a paranoid, self-centered, ordinary, flawed or grossly incapable guy just venting his disappointments, blaming others or really a genius who is grossly ill-treated. I wanted to convey that he is just another guy, with all the reasonable qualities, capabable of achieving, occasionally disappointed, generally satisfied, someone who can sit back and enjoy his failures with a sense of humour.
I thought my last paragraph was reasonably good. He gets a wisdom (typical of an optimistic middle aged individual) from the experience, does not invest in teak wood. Despite all the disappointments (I should say little ones) he is successful. The last sentence was to imply the child inside him, even as a child he does not want ill-gotten wealth, now all that he needs is a friendly hug and say it is ok (not even well done). If I had added a definite positive ending, I guess, the story will pass judgement - slip from the n_anavOdai and bias the reader.
I have not read "The Necklace", but few other by Guy de Maupassant. He definitely is a genius. As I said this is my first. When I completed writing it, it has been very difficult to edit my story (in content) - kakkaikku thankunju... I guess the more I write the more of that sense of possession of words will go and I can edit them with a detached view point. Your words should go a long way towards that. If you can spend sometime, read it again with my response and let me know if I am conveying in the story what I wanted to. Thanks again. - venkat
- From: Manivannan (@ pc-242-178.corp.3com.com)
on: Sat Jun 12 03:33:54
Venkat,
I re-read your story with the background you have provided. I still think that your narration doesn't quite match your intentions. I am curious about some of your assumptions. IMHO, all stories have a message, whether the author explicitly states them or not. The author finds the characters, the plot and the story interesting and the reader extracts the message from the story. And I am not sure why an author should worry about "biasing" the reader. An author can never be neutral. The reader sees the characters through the author's portrayal. The names of the chacters, their language, the author's descriptions of them and their thoughts all create a very selective portrayal in the reader's mind. And the reader brings his own biases into the story as well. A well crafted story creates a desired impression in the reader's mind. If the characters are extremely complex individual, a well crafted story will hint at the layers of complexity. In surrealism or magical realism motifs, the author has some freedom splash the paint on the canvas that is the reader's mind and let her/him imagine whatever she/he pleases. However, this story is a fairly straightforward narration of an ordinary person and the little pin pricks he has had in his life. To make that more interesting than a barroom conversation with a half-drunk about his various diseases, imagined or otherwise, is a challenging task.
As an author, you obviously found this character and his experiences interesting enough to put your finger to the keyboard and type out this story. You obviously thought that this character's inner child needed a hug and nothing more. To do that, you will have to create a sympathetic portrayal that is subtle enough to guide the user. Your language and style are very good. And yet, the narrator doesn't come across as a sympathetic character. Do you know why? It is because he seems to have done well in life and is still bitter about the little hurt. Not quite the "little tramp" of "Modern Times." The narrator turns out to be a forgettable character - the last thing an author should do!
As I said earlier, that is the craft!
-ManiM. Manivannan
- From: Ramesh (@ triumph.msc.cornell.edu)
on: Sat Jun 12 13:06:05
Dear Mani,
I went through, with interest your analysis of Venkat's 'Parisu'. I fail to get convinced though, why should there be a message hidden or otherwise in a short story?! I believe, a narration should be just that. Looking beyond the face value for messages or the psychological makeup of the narrator, may be important for a critic, that too just as an academic excercise. But a writer, who anticipates (such an analysis) and tinkers with or directs the flow, I guess will end up 'building' a story. A good short story need not (to be precise, should not) convey any message and shall never be 'built'. In modern tamil writings, I wonder if anyone other than Pudumaipiththan (may be at a marginal level Thi. Jaa) has done that successfully. I would like you (also Venkat!) to read PP's 'Indhap Paavi' if you haven't read that already.
Many thanks for sparking a meaningful discussion.
- Ramesh
- From: maNivaNNan (@ pc-92-223.corp.3com.com)
on: Sun Jun 13 02:09:33
Ramesh,
I am not saying that a message must be "hidden" or otherwise in a short story! I am saying that every "story" has a message, otherwise it is not a story, it will be a diary or an essay. The "message" is not some preachy moralistic conclusion that the author concocts. In a story an author chooses to focus on selective events and emotions in the lives of people and try to make it "interesting" to the reader. The skill of the author lies in his use of the language, his narration and his ability to create an image in the readers' minds. Contrary to your assertions, the best short stories have been meticulously crafted - yes built - much like a sculpture. Most writers write their best fiction after years of practice. Though most of the authors draw their characters and events from real life, they are very seldom true life events. And believe me, it is not just the critics who observe the psychological makeup of the stories characters. Authors depend on it! It is extremely hard for an actor or director to convey the psychological makeup of characters but an author by deft use of the language can convey that quickly.
Mani M. Manivannan
- From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp)
on: Sun Jun 13 07:15:04
mani,
I still do not understand why there should be atleast a 'hidden' message in a story. I never meant direct messages in my discussion with you like "enna ulakamadaa, thuu" kinda statement from the character. I would despise myself doing that. I was only concurring the so-called-hidden message factor of yours. I have read many well written stories, where the events and persona come out with mixed responses even from learned critics. One such example in modern tamil is 'n_aaLai maRRumoru n_aalE' by G. Nagarajan, considered variedly as one of the top ten modern tamil fictions to rotten yellow stuff. The hero kandan is an extremely complex, intelligent, rebelistic, non-conformalist, sex-starved (even with a barber's touch), does all the sundry jobs sounds very lazy, but works a lot. when you finish reading that you never know what kind of guy he is. You can loathe him, sympathize him, amazed by him, outwitted by him, You never know what GN says, if the world around him is cruel to him or vice versa. Such is the complexity. I never could come up with what kind of message GN puts in it, still I am amazed by his craft (pathetic that he died early and made only few).
You may also see Sujatha's 'kudiRai kadi' story in his webspace (though I am heistently pointing to it). It is a narration of a string of connected events - goes even to the extent of being a verbose report of a comical accident, still a good short story.
If you could see some of the comments for this story, they range from sympathizing as to what parisu is needed - to make one chuckle through - to one's second standard memories. That kind of complexity could have been last if I had 'worded' my character to 'say (or hint)' something. The little hug I was pointing at the end is not the only thing intentended, it can also mean that he is incapable, does need someone to snatch a 'parisu' for him, which he himself is incapable of, among a few versions of interpretations I received.
Aside, no one (atleast someone aspiring to be a meaningful writer) 'reports' real life incidents. No one denies that "Though most of the authors draw their characters and events from real life, they are very seldom true life events....". No one reproduces diary (unless otherwise they are crafted) as stories. These points in your comments are not contested.
It is not always true that good stories are 'crafted'. some times you end up feeling 'hey, this guy just flows naturally', and it is but true that some guys flow naturally, incl. few novices.
Good to listen to meaningful comments. Never hesistate to write what you feel like. I owe you a lot. As for Ramesh's pointer to pudumaippiththan story, ramesh, I would say many of PPs stories are complex and I can recall a handful of them on these lines.
- From: maNivaNNan (@ pc-242-178.corp.3com.com)
on: Thu Jun 17 01:15:56
Venkat,
I did not write that "there should be atleast a 'hidden' message in a story." If you have problems with the word 'message', use the words 'theme' or 'idea'. A story always has a theme, or an idea or a 'message.'
If an author ignores theme or an idea, then the story is just a bunch of random thoughts put together with no structure or no meaning. Yes, the readers might be able read something into it. And in the hands of skilled writers, even babble may come out looking like a work of art. As 'Sujatha' once claimed, even his laundry list would be published as 'fiction.' Should that be the aim of aspiring authors?
As for readers or even critics reading more than the written word, an author depends on it. It is impossible to describe the complex world, let alone a complex human being. But an author tries; he gives a hint or two and the readers fill in the blanks from their experience. Actually, the same story will be interpreted differently by the same readers at different stages of their lives. And the same author will see the story differently too. Life itself is the biggest university of them all.
And as for "hidden messages," let me see, can you explain the following from your story?
1. The local saiva siddhantin is named 'Nagasamy Rao'. As an author why did you choose to name him a "Rao"?
2. Are you sure Saiva Siddhantins promote "Siva Puranam" and "Kantha sashti kavacam"?
3. What is the significance of the Red paper wrapped Engels in Rao's home? The narrator assumes that Rao was a communist. A communist Saiva siddhantin who rewards children who read Siva Puranam and Kantha sashti? Any communist who is serious enough to really read Engels is highly unlikely to promote a religion. Forget the narrator's confusion. As an author what was your reason to throw this in? How does it fit with the story's theme? See, even if this is a meaningless detail, it still can convey a message.
4. Is there any significance to the other characters and details that you have used? The catholic priest who links the hostel stay to the scholarship, the parents who worry about possible conversion, Thangaraj, the business man's son, PoRchezhiyan, the politician's nephew, Sankaran, the mirasdaar's son, etc.
Even if you didn't intend these details to convey a message, they do. That is where the author's bias and the readers' biases clash or mingle.
And as for writers flowing naturally, they are about as common as the mathematicians who flow naturally. And even Ramanujan needed to be trained. Even aacu kavis were well trained in the basics of grammar and had studied the techniques of other poets.
Of course, when an exception arises, as in the cases of Gnana Sambandhar and Mozart, the genius is quite obvious. All the rest were/are skilled craftsmen.
-Mani M. Manivannan
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