Topic started by V. Venkataramanan on Thu Jun 3 23:07:29 .
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- From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp)
on: Sat Jun 19 04:25:15
Dear Vanchi,
I read your comments. I do not fully understand the statements. Let me put it honestly, as a writer, the agenda of my statement on "one man saivasiddhantha sabai... ", is something like this,
First and most of all, to give a hint that the prize that I am discussing in the in incident is decided by an individual (and hence can have some bias) .. one man!
Then, nagasamy rao name is chosen to give some truth (even in stories you need to side with the truth, I guess you will agree - unless we talk about fantasies) with a historical view point. I totally deny further statements by you, like hidden agenda, etc. It is only for the reader who is looking in as to why he is named rao. I never make any statement in the story juxtaposing the rao character with the political or social backdrop. Fully aware that they are out of place here. I never meant to taint my story with such things. For a reader who critically reads the line, he can get all the hidden history, if he really wants to spend time on it. As ramesh put it, it is for the critic to see and search in between lines and when they do their job, may be they come with the kind of explanations I gave in the forum (albeit reluctantly). I do not want to stand anachronistic in the eyes of critics. But for just an average reader (or someone who is not used to the dravidian uprise and the counter movements), it is meant to arise a curiosity as to why a saivite be named rao. Then for the down to earth reader (vanchi, in your termininology thinathanthi fans), the statement is expected to provoke a passing smile.
As you can see now it converges on Gokuls idea (see his mukangkaLai viRRavan discussion in the forum, an answer to mani's question there) that what the write had in his mind is irrelavant, what it evokes on the reader is very important. I guess if I am able to make different layers of responses with same sentence, I am going to be happy.
Nevertheless, as I was not writing a historical, I never went beyond naming that character as rao, leaving the rest to the imagination. Every observations of mani, like why engels, why a christian priest, etc. stand in their place. But only for those who what to look into it. I am sure mani has understood most of those.
Oh, dear! what I wanted to avoid is happening, me dissecting my words. But as a honest first timer and as someone thankful to sincere discussions, I need to answer.
- From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp)
on: Sat Jun 19 04:27:43
Everyone,
I am glad to share that this story has been published in the current issue of aaraamthiNai,
http://www.chennaionline.com/aaraamthinai/sirukathai/sirukathai.asp
Thanks for all you for supporting.
- From: vanchi (@ isdn1.pppmad.vsnl.net.in)
on: Sat Jun 19 05:56:43
Dear Venkat,
I understand your predicament in having to explain your story.
Let me say that I AM CONVINCED
THAT NOW YOU HAVE NO HIDDEN AGENDA IN `PARISU'.
So anything I say in future is not about your story (it is about what it evokes!)
But I wanted to discuss beyond the realm of your story, about things like hidden agenda, AND READING BETWEEN LINES.
If we go by the principle, "what the story evokes is important". As peoples experiences are different we should admit the reactions too will be different.
But a writer must very well be aware of what a line he has written will evoke for most people the story reaches. And should avoid if it is against what he intended to do.
Let me recall what Satyajit Ray had written about
one of his films (I don't know which, perhaps 'Devi', about a woman who is treated as goddess much to her woes)
In that movie Ray wanted to make his hero kiss the heroine (first night scene?). But he used silhouttes dark lighting and made it indirect. He gives his reason (it was 1950's or early 60's): He had brought the story so carefully upto that point and did not want it spoilt by whistles etc by (the Indian) audience who have never seen a kiss on screen.
So a writer who wants the reader to follow him closely better avoid potentially digressing
asides. If it is innocuous that it will be missed in the first reading it is ok.
Let the critic who reads the story n times find hidden meanings and be led astray from the main purpose of the story!
- From: Ramji (@ 205.177.170.61)
on: Sat Jun 19 08:36:38
Venkat:
Hearty congrats!Well deserved.
- From: Gokul (@ atl-qbu-zph-vty26.as.wcom.net)
on: Sat Jun 19 11:56:51
Venkat: Congratulations:-)
- From: maNivaNNan (@ sji-ca42-27.ix.netcom.com)
on: Sat Jun 19 19:11:49
Dear Venkat,
Congratulations. Now you are a published author and I don't have to feel guilty about analysing your story in public. I thought the discussions went well. My intentions were not to criticise you or your story. I am mostly responding to the new idea that seems to be in vogue at forumhub
discussions that somehow stories don't have themes, ideas, or messages and that the authors don't really craft them.
Stories, like other works of fiction, can be analysed and even authors can learn a lot from it. While the poetry threads speculate on
methods and grammar, the story threads are strangely silent on the craft.
In any event, if the analysis was useful to you, I am glad. It certainly forced me to reexamine my understanding of story writing. Hopefully, you
felt the same way.
Thanks for the discussion,
Mani M. Manivannan
- From: sathiya (@ annex2-p64.qualcomm.com)
on: Sun Jun 20 14:23:53
Congratulations venkat!
Nice story and the narrator's longing is clearly brought out in the story as far as I am concerned.
Very interesting discussion too.
- From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp)
on: Sun Jun 20 23:50:32
Thanks to everyone for the kind words.
Vanchi, we shall continue our discussions, as you point out. Indeed you have given me nice hold, me using the surname rao is something like a silhoutting, it is there to see but only for those who looked into.
Mani, as I wrote to you personally, now that more people either show interest to observe this discussion and few more people participating, we can have that right here. I am looking forward to your insightful comments now that I have answered why is he a Rao and I would like to know, as ramesh says, what difference it can make (to an ordinary reader) if he weren't.
- From: Kanchana (@ spider-ta018.proxy.aol.com)
on: Mon Jun 21 15:48:18
Congratulations, Venkat! Besides being read-worthy, your story has sparked an interesting and informative discussion with maNi and vAnchi. Look forward to more.
- From: venkat (@ vectra2.riken.go.jp)
on: Mon Jun 21 21:49:25
vanchi,
Getting back to smart descriptions, I am confused if they are really in place in all stories. Sometime, they are very much essential as a part of the canvass building, otherwise the story will not set in. But beyond a limit, it becomes verbose and sometimes only help projecting the authors vocabulary store or observational capabilities. I guess they are still very debatable and topical ( the demand changes from story to story, the author should know where to stop).
I can easily say that they are very much of an ingredient in historicals (kalki describing a tempest is still in my memory).
I agree with ramesh that one story that stands in this aspects is ammaa van_thaaL by thi.jaa.raa. As we know through his other works he has limitless observations on thanjavur life styles (n_aLapaakam), but here he curbs himself to the eyes of a teenager. The other extreme I could recall is Kazuo Ishiguro's Booker winning 'The remains of the day', He builds up a very vivid canvass, but his canvass is his story.
Calling all vanchi, manivannan, gokul and ramesh..., on this point.
- From: maNivaNNan (@ pc-242-178.corp.3com.com)
on: Tue Jun 22 00:21:40
I have been mulling over Vanchi's comments about "The Necklace". Guy de Maupassant is generally thought of as the classical short story author and "The Necklace" is used as the classical example of a short story in Creative Writing classes in the U.S. To Vanchi, the ending appears to be a deceitful trick of the author on the reader. Is it?
I think most of you are under 30 and you probably cannot imagine the tricks life plays on you. Imagine spending 30 YEARS of your life laboring under an assumption just to realize at the very end of your life how pointless it was! Most people have basic assumptions and their lives are trapped in these assumptions. How do describe that ending? What assumptions drive our lives today? Will we do anything different if we really, truly recognize how pointless our assumptions might be? Speaking of which, spending time on this discussion might be entirely pointless; and the time that I spend with my family is what I might remember and treasure in the twilight of my life.
Will get back to the communist Rao mama and other symbols later.
-Mani
- From: vanchi (@ isdn2.pppmad.vsnl.net.in)
on: Tue Jun 22 09:15:16
Mani,
Some stories (especially short stories)
have events arranged to produce a suitable effect.
That is what I consider a dirty trick by authors
(it can be very entertaining and enjoyable, that is a different matter). IMO `Necklace' falls into that category. Now I remember another story by Maupassant where there is no such delibrate attempt.
"Ball of Fat", about a prostitute from Rouen in France occupied by Germans. Such stories which show the readers (for me previously unknown) depths of "normal decent people" was a revelation to me.
If "Necklace" was written to point out the pointlessness of some basic assumptions of life then I missed it altogether these days.
Why should the author hide his intentions cleverly?
If your aim is not to show some human nature and instead delve into philosophical investigations on Life (here futility of goals, ambitions, questionability of our basic assumptions)then the tone of the story should be matching the purpose.
Take "J.J. Sila kuRippukaL" where the tone
of the novel makes the general purpose of the book fairly obvious.
Whereas "Necklace" which goes into daytoday events and daytoday conversations sets us into thinking
it is a typical Kumutham, ANanda Vikatan story.
Many authors employ Metaphors as if they are making a crossword puzzle. In that case the story would be understood only by critics and intellectuals. (William Golding whom I am told
is a Nobel Laureate has written a small novel "Lord of the Flies" which seemed to me to be about a group of teenage criminals until I read an article by some learned scholar).
Why don't author's write a serious story in a straightforward manner and write a whodonit when they want to satisfy their urge to exhibit their smartness (in hiding and misguiding the readers)?
Read Kalki's "rangadurkkam raja". See how enjoyably and clearly Kalki is able to bring out the attitute of his intellectual hero who felt that everyone in this world is a fool.
You are able to laugh and appreciate as well the character's attitude and feelings. Reading that kuRunovel makes you appreciate how some people get such attitudes and you will be able to understand and have less chances of misunderstandings with such poeple if you encounter them in life.
- From: maNivaNNan (@ pc-242-178.corp.3com.com)
on: Tue Jun 22 16:15:15
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Mani M. Manivannan
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