Topic started by Nadopasaka on Mon Feb 21 21:10:55 .
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Thyagaraja is unique among all vaggeyakaras. What is the source of this uniqueness ?
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- From: Krishnamurthy Shyam (@ net231-234.its.yale.edu)
on: Tue Apr 11 06:51:00 EDT 2000
In general, Tyagaraja was less wordy than his other illustrious contemporaries. I wonder if he deliberately kept it that way to make sangatis possible and seamless. The converse could be true as well.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp68.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Apr 11 07:05:39 EDT 2000
Hi Kshyam, that is an interesting take. I am not sure about the PanchaRatna krities which seem uncharacteristically wordy. What is the nature/extent of sangatis permitted in these ?
All three Bangala krities of Tyg. Sakshi leda, Munupe and Girirajasuta have his mudra as 'shri tyagaraja'.
- From: Krishnamurthy Shyam (@ net245-226.its.yale.edu)
on: Tue Apr 11 13:11:48 EDT 2000
Pancharatna kirtanas are indeed wordy but as compositions intended for group-singing they are also not as sangati-rich as many of his other compositions. Although I haven't thought about this in any great depth, I think only the pallavis in these kirtanas have some variations on the refrain.
As someone who was in the grip of what Wordsworth describes as
"that blessed mood,
In which the burthen of the mystery,
In which the heavy and the weary weight
Of all this unintelligible world,
Is lightened:--that serene and blessed mood,
In which the affections gently lead us on,--
Until, the breath of this corporeal frame
And even the motion of our human blood
Almost suspended, we are laid asleep
In body, and become a living soul" almost all his life, he was somewhat in awe of what he had become (as an outsider looking in, all the while giving credit to Shri Rama, not his own creative powers) he could be forgiven for the use of "Shri". Or do you think he was capable of irony or self-deprecating humor?
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp37.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Apr 11 13:56:55 EDT 2000
I think there is one shishya line that believes he hardly 'taught' in the formal sense, that they were struggling to write down what they heard, maybe even in the sands of the Kaveri as our hero went about his advaitic trance. But I like your romantic explanation as well.
Irony and self-deprecation abound in Tyg. I would note also that the phrase 'Raga-rahita' appears in ElaNeedaya(ataana) and Ninuvina(Todi). MD uses this in Devakriya-SreeGuruguha.
There is a beautiful Tulasamma set of krities AmmaRavamma(kalyani), TulasiJagata(saveri), SriTulassamma(Devagandhari), DeviSriT and TulasiDalamula (MMgowla) and Tulasibilva(kedaragowla). The two MMGowla krities are in different talams. The use of Kalyani and Saveri also appears in the Dharmasamvardhani group , the Tiruvotriyur Tripurasundari group and in a Kaveri-Panchanadi group of MD.
Maybe this was prompted by KAVERI = KA-lyani + sa-VERI
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp37.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Apr 11 14:14:07 EDT 2000
Kshyam, Tintern Abbey is certainly appropriate ! So is 'the music in my heart I bore, long after it was heard no more ' from the solitary reaper. I think it is uncanny that Wordsworth (1770-1850) lived in the same time frame as our heroes in addition to the WCM giants.
- From: K. Shyam (@ net162-199.med.yale.edu)
on: Tue Apr 11 18:22:27 EDT 2000
Nadopasana: Getting back to GNB just for a moment, he was indeed a master of sangatis but I have often wondered if he could sing the slower, more discursive compositions of MD or SS with equal competence, given his penchant for fast-paced kritis. I have heard his delightful rendition of several kritis by MD (Sivakamesvarim, Ekadantam, Sri Subrahmanyaya namaste and Meenakshi memudam,for example) and SS's Palinchi Kamakshi but these are compositions I would have expected him to sing well. Have you ever heard sing a kriti like "Amba Neelayadakshi" (Neelambari)or Amba Kamakshi (Bhairavi)? I am not suggesting he couldn't have. I am just curious. I apologize for getting away from the topic but I had to ask you this.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp15.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Apr 11 18:33:30 EDT 2000
He has a pretty good Ninu sevinchina, YadukulaKof Subbarayasastri, is what comes to mind right now.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp53.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Apr 14 06:09:53 EDT 2000
The Tyagaraja krities show a strong awareness of feminine charms ( good for him ). Celestial damsels fan his lords and wily women are always trying to seduce him ! MD and SyamaSastri, not to be outdone, also have a strong fascination with Devis, however they seem to prefer the platonic and possibly stone faced images of their 'Ishta' goddesses.
Kshyam, it is interesting that in 'Kalaharanamela Hare Sitaraama', ShriRama is addressed as the 'personification of Tyaga or sacrifice on this earth'. This is one example where the Shri Tyagaraja appellation may apply to sriRama by design contrary to the conventional deity, Lord shiva !! Shri Tyagaraja is not used in this kritis mudra, only Tyagaraja-vinuta.
- From: K. Shyam (@ net231-152.its.yale.edu)
on: Fri Apr 14 08:10:00 EDT 2000
I see SS and Tyagaraja as more alike in their approach to prayer. Their prayers are more "petitionary" in nature. SS becomes almost childlike in his importunities. The dignified Dikshitar, for the most part, is quite content to praise the deity and move on! He refuses to grovel!
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp21.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Apr 14 18:16:05 EDT 2000
It seems to me it is difficult to be un-childlike before a deity, unless you are PatRobertson or one of the evangelical phonies. Dikshitar seems more impersonal, like the temple archakas who relay countless prayers during a day, with barely a trace of emotion. But MD does mention his family sponsors in a few of his krities. It is also difficult to be childlike with lofty language/ideas e.g. Jagadananakaraka.
- From: K. Shyam (@ net245-174.its.yale.edu)
on: Fri Apr 14 20:14:25 EDT 2000
With Dikshitar the emotion isn't in the lyrics; he places it in the non-lyrical portion of his compositions. Lofty ideas come housed in heart-rending tunes.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp42.buffnet.net)
on: Sat Apr 15 08:02:24 EDT 2000
That seems right given that MD was also a pretty accomplished vainika and the family seems to have been experimenting with instruments. But I am hard put to remember an instrumental rendition of any of the Kamalamba Navavaranas. I certainly agree the MD krities have no place in a 'bhajan' session. Even with the SyamaSastri krities one has to be careful. I think only PurandaraDasa and Tyagaraja ( maybe Annamacharya ) are flexible enough to handle these treatments, up to a point.
- From: K. Shyam (@ net245-219.its.yale.edu)
on: Sat Apr 15 09:23:02 EDT 2000
I agree that Tyagaraja and Purandaradasa are far more accessible to the general public than SS and MD. The laya and gamaka are highly sophisticated in SS krities. These qualities make his childlike importunities all the more charming since most of us would have given anything to compose a musical marvel like "Kamakshi" (Bhairavi). I see Tyagaraja's krities more like mythological tales, accessible and charming, and they prepare the listener for the sophisticated artistry and the graduate level courses of SS and MD. I can't think of Tyagaraja without thinking of the old Canon AE-1 ad: "It is so advanced it is simple"!
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp11.buffnet.net)
on: Sat Apr 15 10:02:58 EDT 2000
It is not difficult to use the word 'canon' in the same breath as any of the Trinity ! Maybe there is a veena rendition of the KNV's ?
Speaking of SS, I understand 'Viriboni' is a composition of his guru Pachimiriyam A. This famous Bhairavi varnam and the famous SS swarajathi are quite distinct. SS also had a great feel for Anandabhairavi and the related Manji. It is also interesting to me that Subbaraya Sastri went after Ritigaula, Mukhari among others but doesnt seem to have anything in Bhairavi.
I wonder if the other SS swarajathis also are 'adorned' with 'neraval' by other artistes ( or is this only an SSI penchant ? )
- From: K. Shyam (@ net166-245.its.yale.edu)
on: Sun Apr 16 12:11:34 EDT 2000
I haven't come across a veena rendition of the KNVs. Adorning SS swarajathis with neraval is almost certainly an SSI penchant. In fact, ca. 30 years ago, a music critic for the Hindu (I am fairly sure it was N.M. Narayanan) took him to task for doing exactly that. A few days later, at the 50-50 Club (or was it the Music Club?) in Madras, SSI defended himself saying, "Ambal is incredibly beautiful but does it stop the archaka from adorning her with silk sarees, and gold and diamond jewellery?".
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp66.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Apr 17 03:51:25 EDT 2000
Amba might also wish to dress light but she may be too fatigued to make herself heard , drowning and drooping under the heavy weight of all this affect-a-tion.
SSI has also 'taken it upon himself' perhaps on the insistence/sponsorship of Swati Tirunals family to perform/retune many SwatiTirunal krities, thus bringing some doubt on the authencity of this composer. I have remarked elsewhere that , in this context ( whatever the facts are ) , it is extremely difficult to find any compositions from the other Kerala based comtemporaries of SwatiTirunal. Parameswara Bhagavatar is supposed to have a Natta varnam and there has even been some talk about the famous 'Sarasija nabha' Kamboji varnam as some one else's kriti. It doesn't help that ST is supposed to have at least 20 different mudras or signatures ( padma-nabha, jalaja-.. etc. etc... ) . or that there is no shishya line.
But SSI is undoubtedly one of the foremost musicians (both as performer and pedantically ) of the 20th century CM. So, he must be permitted some idiosyncracies and also to advance his view and unique contributions/thesis in the historical pantheon of CM.
With regard to adding/subtracting to standard krities, I read somewhere that GNB used to diligently and invariably delete the chitta swaras of the Palinchu Kamakshi - SS Madhyamavati during his rendition.
- From: S (@ netcache31.mot.com)
on: Mon Apr 17 04:15:59 EDT 2000
Nado :
I remember reading in Prof Sambamurthy's book that the swara sahityam for palinchukamakshi was added by his descendant Annaswamy Sastri. Sarasijanabha ( kambhodi ata tala varnam ) is believed to be Vadivelu's ( one of the Tanjore quartet in Swati Tirunal's court ) composition. Incidentally, the nattai varnam u have referred to in ur post also begins with sarasijanabha
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