Topic started by Mani on Fri Dec 3 22:51:07 .
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What are your views, info, and ideas on Swati Thirunal??? |
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- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp36.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Aug 16 02:32:55 EDT 2000
Paanini, Other than the first words, it is not clear what this Dhanyasi kriti has to with 'BhogindraShaayinam' ?? also, Unsure if HMB had anything to do with Travancore or ST. He was too busy trying to 'make nice' with the Mysore Maharaja.
- From: Vish (@ palwebproxy2.core.hp.com)
on: Wed Aug 16 13:45:14 EDT 2000
HMB was Semmangudi's predecessor at the Swati Tirunal college (I forget the actual name) where the ST songs were "recovered".
I believe he left partly because of a falling out with Semmangudi. See http://www.indiaserver.com/frontline/1998/10/24/15220650.htm
Clearly, he lacked Semmangudi's talent for "making nice" with people.
Vish
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp9.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Aug 16 18:00:34 EDT 2000
Hmmm.. Interesting article. Seems from it that HMB got run out of Travancore by SSI, and it all happened well after Music Academy was formed or HMB had established himself. I read somewhere HMB had to jump through several hoops before getting noticed. In any case SSI is not considered a composer like the other vaggeyakaras, inspite of his tune-up work. Not a person to antagonize, it seems !
- From: Vish Subramanian (@ adsl-63-202-179-184.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
on: Thu Aug 17 01:33:04 EDT 2000
> In any case SSI is not considered a composer >like the other vaggeyakaras.
I thought a vaggeyakara was one who composed both the words and the tune - I might be wrong.
Anyway, it seems like the practise is to attribute as composer one who wrote the words, not set the tune. No one credits the people who re-tuned the works of Annamacharya or Purandaradasa, or tuned the works of Ambujam Krishna or Periaswamy Thooran. Ambujam Krishna is regarded as a composer though (according to Ludwig Pesch - Illustrated Companiion to CM) the music for her lyrics were composed entirely by others, including SSI.
Vish
- From: Ramaprasad (@ 204.154.176.49)
on: Thu Aug 17 12:27:55 EDT 2000
One interesting point about HMB. Many of his
kritis were penned by some other court poet
in Mysore.
-Ramaprasad K V
- From: Sree (Puduhai Sreeram) (@ 134.243.93.24)
on: Mon Aug 21 13:18:57 EDT 2000
Vish wrote:
"I thought a vaggeyakara was one who composed both the words and the tune - I might be wrong."
You are not entirely wrong. Those who write the krithis and set to music are called "uththama vAggEyakAra".
Those who set someone's krithi to music and those who write just the krithis are also vAgEyakAra's ;-)
- From: paanini (@ ppp-180-97.bng.vsnl.net.in)
on: Tue Aug 22 09:24:51 EDT 2000
thanks lakshman.
nadopasaka>>
i too do not know the connection between
BhogindraShaayinam& the other .just read it somewhere.
but the lyrins and the music seem to be in no way
connected!
forgot who made this statement? any ideas?
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 164.164.88.97)
on: Wed Aug 23 07:27:54 EDT 2000
can anybody shed some light on the sanskrit used by ST.
i am not aware of sanskrit grammar but i always feel that MDs sanskrit and STs sanskrit are different in someway.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp46.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Aug 23 08:03:07 EDT 2000
RaviKiran, Might shed more dark than light :-) but in KalayaamiRaghuramam the Begada, GNB seems to use '??...kulaa tilaakam' This extended 'A' doesn't seem kosher, but might be a GNB artifact.
- From: Sharath (@ ppp-203-197-9-150.bom.vsnl.net.in)
on: Fri Dec 1 03:47:37
Swathi Thirunal was one of the best things that happened to Music..Indian or otherwise. Clearly, he is Goddess Saraswati's own santhana. His compositions show great classical power and knowledge.
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-122-174.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Sat Dec 2 20:40:17 EST 2000
Well.
It is supposed to be an open secret that Vadivelup Pillai, the inventor of the Tamil Music violin system and one of the 4-sibling disciples of Muthuswamy Dikshithar was the actual composer of most of Swathith ThirunAL. I understand that Chemmangudi knows this very well but has all along refused to officially reveal this...Veenai Balachandar is said to have engaged Chemmangudi in a public debate on this and prodded him declare the truth.
- From: mummani_fan (@ ecargje4.nortelnetworks.com)
on: Fri Dec 8 22:50:15 EST 2000
Thsi is a controversial topic..but IMHO ST was not a divine composer but just another composer..he has composed some good thillanas ..and has made an attempt to ompose in the manipravalam style..nothing beyond it
- From: Shyam (@ a020-0122.snfc.splitrock.net)
on: Fri Dec 8 23:29:14 EST 2000
I dont agree with that at all. I am not at all saying that he was a divine composer(how do you define that anyway?)
Compositions like Rama Rama in Simhendramadhyamam, Deva Deva, Janani Mamava and most of his compositions are in no way trivial. They show deep scholarship and gripping control over bhava aspects of cm.
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.144.107.4)
on: Sat Dec 9 15:10:16 EST 2000
but shyam..once a shadow of doubt is cast on the composer; it becomes difficult for the sceptics to digest any krithi of ST.
in this case, SSI himself seems to have said that many of the classic ST krithis were "brushed" by him and HMB.
some examples include Vishweshwara (Sindhu Bhairavi), Maanasa sancharare, Pankaja Lochana..most of which were tuned wholly by SSI.
i guess he is too devoted to Kerala and the cause of ST - and hence does not want to reveal too many details about the "compositions" of ST.
- From: mummani_fan (@ ecargje4.nortelnetworks.com)
on: Sat Dec 9 19:40:45 EST 2000
IMHO leaving alone SB controversy, STs krithis do bear a resemblance with the Krithis of the Tanjore quartette.like Deva deva Kalayamithe's structure does bear a resemblance with Mayathitha swaroopini.
- From: Dr.S.BHAGYALEKSHMY (@ 202.9.166.238)
on: Mon Dec 11 09:24:47 EST 2000
I happen to go through the commens. most seems to ignirant of the krithies, pada varnas , thillanas, utsaa prabandhas. upakhyanas , navarathri keerthanas. navaratnamalika of S.T. His N.R.K alone is enough to reveal his poetical genious. Tanjore vativelu was a scholar in tamil and telugu. how can he comoise in oure malayalam like aliveni in kurinji, kintu cheyvu in kalyani, kanthanodu in neelammbari. to get more details, please go through the work of Dr.S.Venkitasubramonya iyers Swathi thirynal 7his music. thanks.Dr. S. Bhagyalekshmy.
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-123-208.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Sat Dec 16 16:40:57 EST 2000
Dr. S. Bhagyalekshmi said:
---
how can he comoise in oure malayalam like aliveni in kurinji, kintu cheyvu in kalyani,
kanthanodu in neelammbari. to get more details,.."
--
If Vadivelu Pillai could learn Telugu so well as to compose kirthis in Telugu, then what exactly would have prevented him from learning Malayalam also? After all he lived in Kerala ever since he left Muthusamy Dikshitar's school and was a court musician there! Then he had better learn Malayalam...which is nothing but a different dialect of Tamil; it is even easier for a scholar of Tamil since Malyalam uses routinely many arcane Tamil words.
- From: pANini (@ socks1b.rochester.ibm.com)
on: Fri Dec 22 07:21:46 EST 2000
Dr.Bhagyalakshmi>>
Reg ur point abt malayalam and Vadivelu not knowing it>>
Is'nt there is a possibility that the lyrics are by one person and the music is a joint effort?
As such I can see a cohesiveness and a uniqueness in the lyrics [including all types of compositions u mentioned ] marking the stamp of a single composer.If you could comment on why such a thing is lacking or atleast i am not able to find it in the musical structure of swati tirunal's compositions?
- From: Puduhai Sreeram (@ 134.243.93.24)
on: Fri Dec 22 10:35:03 EST 2000
pANini
Could you please shed some light on how you are able to "see a cohesiveness and a uniqueness in the lyrics" of ST that leads you to conclude that there is the stamp of a single composer? For instance, what similarity (w.r.t to what is mentioned above) do you see between alivEni enthu cheyu, bOgIndra sAyinam, sArasaKsha (pantuvarAli) and kalayAmi raghurAmam(bEgadA)?
Thanks
- From: Nadopasaka (@ nas-132-60.rochester.navipath.net)
on: Fri Dec 22 11:20:58 EST 2000
ST's case is not helped by the fact there is no Sishya parampara and there are quite a few mudras. But this Parameswara Bhagavatar character seems to have been a formal teacher ( and remained that way )
- From: ¦À.ºó¾¢Ã§º¸Ãý/Chandra (@ rr-165-122-13.atl.mediaone.net)
on: Sun Dec 24 00:06:04 EST 2000
Note also that Vadivelup piLLai was appointed Swathi ThirunAL's court musician at the age of 14 (that is he had graduated from Muthusami Dikshitar's school by then!).
M. Dikshitar called him "Eka chandha grahI" ("One who absorbs things on the first instance")
which is sure to remind anyone of Mozart who is reputed to have reproduced any score on hearing it the first time.
- From: bhagyam (@ 202.9.166.215)
on: Tue Jan 2 06:51:19 EST 2001
to know more about swathi thirunal. please go through the book'SWATHI THIRUNAL&HIS MUSIC by Dr. S.VENKITASUBRAMONYA IYER.
- From: Manoj (@ )
on: Wed Jul 14 12:28:29
Can any one translate the maning of Ali Veni Enthu cheyvu ....Swathi thirunal Kruthi ?
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