Ancient Tamil poetry sung to Carnatic music?

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Ancient Tamil poetry sung to Carnatic music? Ancient Tamil poetry sung to Carnatic music?

Topic started by Kazhuku (@ spider-wq071.proxy.aol.com) on Wed Jul 25 23:28:37 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

So far, most of the Tamil texts sung in Karnatik music that I have heard come from mediaeval or early modern Hindu poetry, from the
period that was heavily influenced by Sanskrit. It is also easy to find the greatest modern poet, Bharatiyar, set to Karnatik music. In any case, my favourite Karnatik singers perform texts that are no older than a few centuries.

With the great wealth of ancient Tamil poetry --
Sangam poems from the Ainkurunuru, the urintokai, the Pattuppattu;
narrative poems like the Cilappatikaram;
even the Tirukkural --
I would like to know if any Karnatik vocalists are performing such ancient pre-Hindu Tamil poetry.

The development of Carnatic music as we know it in the present took shape in the days of Tyagaraja, at a time when Sanskritized Tamil
poetry flourished with devotional Hindu themes for deities like Krsna, Rama, etc. Tamil literature, after all, with ANTAL and the
Azhvars, was the first to initiate the Bhakti movement in the early mediaeval period that later swept all India. So it is understandable how the Karnatik tradition relies on this genre of poetry.

But I have thought with the revival of Tamil consciousness and ancient Sangam poetry and Murukan hymns, that it might be adapted to Karnatik music. Has this ever been done? Is it possible? I imagine that to authentically revive ancient Tamil songs one would wish to restore the
use of ancient instruments mentioned in that poetry, such as the yazh.

Responses:

From: kik (@ ts4-224.silcon.com) on: Sat Jul 28 21:32:51

Part of the aychiar kuravai from silappathikaaram has been sung by MS Subbalakshmi in her concert at the United Nations in 1966 - vadavaraiyai maththaakki vaasukiyai naanaakki...

Numerous singers sing thevaaram and divya prabandham hymns in their concerts and in recordings. Albums in the temple style (araiyar sevai), set to carnatic music, and with orchestration are available.

There's a double cassette AVM selections from Kambaramayanam by TN Seshagopalan and another album by MS Subbalskhmi.

ThirukkuraL kamaththupaal has been set to various thamizh panns (the original carnatic ragas) and sung by SPB & Chithra. The verses within an athikaaram have been altered slightly to fit into the pallavi/charanam structure of a keerthanai. There's an oriental records album containing selections from thirukkuraL rendered by Deepan Chakravarthy, Balamurali Krishna etc.

The only other sangam poetry released commercially in a recording I'm aware of is a set of songs for bharathanatyam with jathiswaram etc. About 10-12 volumes have been released so far. They were available at Higginbothams in Chennai. I didn't pick them up since I haven't seen a review of them so far.
From: eraMu (@ dialpool-210-214-133-140.maa.sify.net) on: Sat Jul 28 22:23:41

As you might have observed from the writings of Mr.Periannan Chandrasekaran elsewhere in this forum, Thamizh Isai has a distinct identity of its own with its well laid out paN structure. Some of the paNs have been adopted by Carnatic music.
From: Chandra (@ att-56-78-59.atl.mediaone.net) on: Sat Jul 28 23:45:07

Era Murukan drew attention to this thread.
"Kik" said:
-----
The development of Carnatic music as we know it in the present took shape in the days of Tyagaraja,...
-------

This is one of the grossest historical misconceptions in this field. While the ThiruvArur thrinity are no doubt great musical geniuses, the music called "carnatic" was not at all shaped by them. It has been in existence and been thriving in pretty much the same form for over 200 years in Tamilakam under the name "icaith thamiz" or "thamiz icai" (note that the term Tamil there has nothing to do with the language; it is only an ethnic marker).

The ThiruvArUr trinity's main contribution was composing in Telugu which was sponsored by the Nayakkars and Sarfojis of their times. There are no attested original Telugu composiitons before them. Purandharadas is often credited with earlier contributions but musicological reseachers like Abhyambika are confidently discarding those claims.

Be that as may, this music was thriving always.
with no necessity for idenitifying particular group like a triad or trinity.
it was the only music known to Tamil people at all levels of society. With the change of power from Tamil kings to nonTamil kings state sponsorship or court status of the language of the vocal also cahnged from tamil to telugu.
The nayakkaras were notorious for their anti-Tamil language stance. Even the best spoken-of Thirumalai Nayakkar harassed tamil poets. He hung the guru of vIramAmunivar (Beschi) in a cage from the ceiling of his court for composing a sarcastic poem criticizing his anti-Tamil attitude.

Of course these nayakkars were always known for introducing cruel punishments into the South probably learnt from the Mughals. They introduced skinning the back and diametric chopping (mAru kai-mARu kAl) etc. There are quite a few noNDi nATakam poems like ThingkaLUr nonDi nAtakam compose during these nAyakkar regime which specifically wail over the harsh punishments meted out.
That gives an idea of the atmosphere at that time.
So that was how Telugu compositions thrived not even in Andhra or Karnataka but only in the heart of Tamilakam which was for thousands of years known for musical excellence.

Even before the T.trinity, there were the CIkAzi trinity (or erroneously cIrkAzi) who innovated not only in Tamil compositions but also musically/musicologically. AruNAcalak kavirAyar even composed a whole kAvyam using poems in kIrthanai format. MarimuththAp piLLai's legend about overcoming the flood is probably the antecedent for the same with one of the T.trinity!
There were hundreds of compositions like kuRavanjcis and paLLus all keerthanai formats set to various ragas.
kuRRAlak kuRavanjci is one such ( a rare Tamil piece recognized by a nAyakka!). The author set the kIrthanais to various ragas. One of the kIrthanais mentions a few ragas.
See the full web version at:
http://www.tamil.net/projectmadurai/pub/pm0106/kkurava.html
See that the author has indicated which ones are viruththams which ones are to thALam etc. That the author knew Tamil music is internally supported by song 41-1 which casually mentions:
"thodi muraLi varALi bhairavi..."

Arunagiri's thiruppukaz composed long long (ca. 1500 AD) before the T.trinity is a treasure trove of thALams.
And back to thEvAram which is the youngest Tamil musical composition but older than any Indian musical composition! But it is preceded by cilappathikAram's musical compositions which in turn are preceded by paripADal a sangam era anthology of purely musical compositions with annotations of composer, tuner and what the paN is tuned for. They are the earliest carnatic music compositions available in the world.

Sangam literature has casual mention of ragas in poems. Skt literature is not like that. In addition to raga names, Tamil poems 2000 years ago casually mention grahabhedham system often. Looks like musicians of that time has the convention of gliding from one ragas to another in the grahabhedham cycle.

Also note that Sanskrit metre system is not all suited for carnatic music. Skt. assigned mAtras in a way that was no way suitable for carnatic music singing. Only the Tamil system which is based on acai system is natural for carnatic music. There are other subtle but major points which go to Skt's phonological system that rule out the rhythm syllables.

So this carnatic music or Tamil music has been flowing for a long time. Only the last few centuries you had Telugu compositions dominating in court circles. And old raga names changed officially into current names. Note that a whole lto current names are still Tamil only. nATTai, kauLai (pronounced as Gaulai due to north Dravidian habits like kuthirai-guthirai, palli-balli etc), Arabhi (Ar = to sound), varALi/varADi, kuRinjci, nATTak kuRinjci, cindhu payiravi (cintu = a musical type; payir = to beckon with special sounds), mukAri, curuTTi, cencuruTTi, kuntaLa varALi, thanAci (than = musical syllable), begaDa from piyAkadAi (attested form in pinkalanthai ca.9 th century) and so on.!

venkata makhi reorganized the taxonomy different from the original grahabhedham (cyclic tonic shift). The latter system was based on the thiNai system of emotional taxnomy which meant that ragas that were closer in the moods evoked were closer in the taxonomy. But not so in the Venkatamakhi system.

CilappathikAram and thEvAram songs are sung habitually. They will endure as long as any other compositions. They have seen 1400-1600 years and they will see another thousand years gracefully.

Note that the thiruvArUr trinity are Tamil scholars only that they are musical Tamil scholars. musical tamil as explained before refers to the carnatic music system nothing to do with the language technically. It is the system invented by Tamil speaking people.

Regards,
Chandra
From: Chandra (@ att-56-78-59.atl.mediaone.net) on: Sat Jul 28 23:47:42

A typo:

Please reread the following with 2000 (two thousand) years:
been thriving in pretty much the same form for over *200* (--> 2000) years in Tamilakam.

Hope the admins can change it in situ.
Apologies.

Thanks
Chandra
From: kik (@ tc2-167.silcon.com) on: Sun Jul 29 23:36:33

Chandra: I didn't say anything about Thyagaraja/development of carnatic music in this thread. Can you reference the thread so I can check in what context I said this? I'm assuming that I did say this somewhere on this hub. illavittaal naLLiravil police en kathavai thattiyathati pOnRa shockai enakku koduththuLLeergaL enRu complain pannuvEn:-)
From: Chandra (@ att-56-78-59.atl.mediaone.net) on: Sun Jul 29 23:49:01

Oops! I meant kazuku! Though kazuku and kik are both interesting, somehow kik ended up being more interesting! :-)
"kik" my apologies!
From: devanagari (@ 1cust226.tnt2.farmington.mi.da.uu.net) on: Mon Jul 30 08:33:52

What about the lack of uttama vaggeyakaras in "Tamil music".Why is that ???And were they not able to preserve the tunes when they could preserve so many texts?

It is said that Arunacala kavi's disciples set the tune for his rama nataka kirtanas.Is there any conclusive evidence that "notated" or "tuned" compositions of the so-called "cirgazhi trinity"?

No attested original Telugu composiitons before them. >>Well what about Melattur Virabhadrayya,Sonti and others? Oothukadu composed in sanskrit too.Some of his original tunes are available and sung even today.Why not so with people like muthuthandavar?
Compositions of trinity are in sanskrit too not just telegu.

What about brhadeshi,ratnakara , many other "continous streams" of ,musicological texts in sanskrit and others much much before venkatamakhin? Did he too borrow from Tamil?
IS there something more in detailed other than cilappathikaram which has the multi-cultural influence ? where kovalan and kannagi get married by circumambulating the fire,and many puranic stories borrowed entirely from sanskrit.Indra's son jayanta and many other such reference.

Many of these ragas are definitely a product of the mixture of indigenous/folk music from Andhra and Tamilnadu with the mainstream music. like cencukamboji, kurinji, piyakadai.
From: kik (@ ts3-157.silcon.com) on: Mon Jul 30 23:26:00

devanagari: I'm not sure if you're asking this in jest/in seriousness. Most of the ancient texts are available today due to the sterling efforts of less than 5 people - chief among these being u.v. swaminathier.

That the devaram/prabandham and the sangam contain extensive references as well as specific details about music is well established - see v.p.k. sundaram's work on this topic. The date of the sangeetha ratnakara is the 12th cent AD.

Tamil works and music fell into disuse because they lacked patronage in the nayakkar/maratha times. Melattur, Sonti etc. were the generation(s) of artists who either came along with the invading non-tamil people or learnt their language to get their support. As the nayaka/maratha regimes gave way to the british era, there was a corresponding move towards the new mecca - Madras. Arunachala kavi is the most prominent example of this trend.

chandra: I'm flattered that you found my comments interesting:-)

This is not to suggest that the sangam works are free of sanskrit influence - several references imply awareness of the sanskritic tradition (e.g. references to anthanar performing yaagam etc).

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