Topic started by Nadopasaka on Mon Feb 21 21:10:55 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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Thyagaraja is unique among all vaggeyakaras. What is the source of this uniqueness ?
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Responses:
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aippp2.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Feb 21 21:32:48 EST 2000
Let me start this off with a list of about 30 ragas and krities of Tyagaraja that are rarely performed.
SwaraBhushani-Varadaraja, Swaravali-Prarabdha, Siddhasena-Evariena, Divymani or Dundubhipriya-Leelagani, Srimani-Yemandune, Supradeepa-Varasikhi, Suposhini-Raminchu, Devamritavarshini-Evarani, Vivardhani-Vinave, JayaNarayani-Manavini, Jevantini-Nee Chittamu, Jingla-Anathudanu, Jujavali-Parakujesina, SuddhaDesi-Raghunandana, Tivravahini-Sarijesi, VasantaVarali-Pahi Ramaduta, PurnaLalitha-Kaluguna, Phalamanjari-sanatana, Rupavati-Ne Mora, Nabhomani-Nayeda Vanchana, Vanavali-aparadhamula, Kokilavarali-Sumukha, Kokiladhwani-TolineJesina, Vanaspati-Pariyachakama, Bhavapriya-Sri KanthaNee, Malavasri-Ennallu, IsaManohari-Manasa Srirama, Gundakriya-Intanuchu, Nadatarangini-?.
What about krities in the more common ragaas ?
- From: Prasad (@ hoproxy2.proxy.lucent.com)
on: Mon Feb 21 22:54:18 EST 2000
I read about this Krithi emu juchi by Thiagaraja which is supposed to be not so good in its meaning.
does any one know of this?
Prasad
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp30.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Feb 22 06:50:47 EST 2000
Prasad, you are correct. But I think the kriti is 'Menu Juchi mosa' in Sarasangi. ( also uncommon ) . There is somewhat unusual (for Tyagaraja) graphic detail.
- From: Sree (@ 134.243.96.152)
on: Tue Feb 22 08:44:46 EST 2000
Could you please elaborate on what you mean by "not so good in its meaning" and "graphic detail"?
Thanks
- From: Nadopasaka (@ abppp21.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Feb 22 09:24:30 EST 2000
in anupallavi - reference to women's urine-blood ( heenamaina mala mootra-rakta )
in charanam - the pillowing of heads on the breasts of women
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp39.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Feb 23 18:15:08 EST 2000
Are there any Varnams by Sri Tyagaraja ?
Does this say anything about his status as a music teacher or guru , if anything ? What about Bhavanuta in Mohana ?
Mamava satatam-Jaganmohini (sobhillu dominates) and Madilona- Kolahalam are also quite rare.
So also Bhaktuni Charitramu and Lokavana Chatura in Begada.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp46.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 6 23:53:59 EST 2000
What are the so-called NaukaCharitram krities of Tyagaraja ? I heard of one, Veda Vakyamani . Any info is appreciated.
- From: nandini (@ 1cust120.tnt9.charlotte.nc.da.uu.net)
on: Wed Mar 8 15:48:08 EST 2000
I know one more Nauka charitram krithi....Gandhamu Puyyaragu - Punnagavarali. It is a Arathi/Mangalam song. No more info!
Also About songs with 'not-so-good-meaning'.....i know one in bindumaalini. Entha muddo entha sogaso. The charanam has lyrics something like....men are so lustful that they want their mothers-in-law.
Its very hard to believe that Thyagaraja would write these words.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp9.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Mar 8 22:08:47 EST 2000
It is possible to view these seeming aberrations in Tyagaraja krities as examples of his sheer awareness of the human condition.
Unlike the other great vaggeyakaras, his great vision took in all of the world, including the physical. In the Jaganmohini Sobhillu refer to the line , cf. Naabhi-hrut-kantha-rasana-sadula, ( I believe the musical phrase on this line of the kriti ascends ( at least is supposed to ) from the low notes derived from the naabhi up to the final nasal gamakas at rasa-na.sa.
And the loins are not far from the naabhi !
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp4.buffnet.net)
on: Sun Mar 19 14:59:47 EST 2000
It is quite amazing that two prodigious contemporaries such as Muthuswami Dikshitar and Tyagaraja had so little effect on each other. ( in Tyagaraja's Dharmasamvardhani krities, there are echoes of SyamaSastris obsession ). MD's ignoring the Kharaharapriya and HariKamboji scale constructions are one example.
- From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38834.sympatico.ca)
on: Sun Mar 19 15:33:30 EST 2000
The Nauka Charita kritis are as follows:
Shrngarinchukoni vedali-Surati-Adi
Chudare chelulara- Kamavardhini-Chapu
Adavarulella gudi-Yadukulakambhoji-Chapu
Emani neranemmu-Saurashtra-Chapu
Ememo teliyaka balikeru-Saurashtra-Chapu
Vadanu jaripe muchchataga-Saranga-Adi
Tanayante prema mayanuga-Bhairavi-Chapu
E nomu nechitimo-Punnagavarali-Rupaka
Chalu chalu ni-Saveri-ChapuChutamurare i vetka-Karnatakakapi-Chapu
Evaru manaku samana-Devagandhari-Adi
Unnatavuna nundani-Ghanta-Chapu
Alla kallola mayenamma-Saurashtra-Adi
Perugu palu pujiyinchi-Ghanta-Adi
Krshna makemitova palku-Punnagavarali-Chapu
Indukemi setumamma-Varali-Chapu
Vedavakyamani enchiri-Mohana-Chapu
Hari hari niyokka divya-Punnagavarali-Adi
Gandhamu puyyaryga-Punnagavarali-Adi
Ghuma ghuma ghumayani-Saurashtra-Triputa
Ma kulamunikiha-Surati-Chapu
- From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp1.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 20 20:20:05 EST 2000
Thanks Lakshman.
I guess MD does have krities in all asampurna melas. But the uniqueness of both Kharaharapriya and HariKambhoji did not seem to appeal to him. This is particularly odd for as 'deliberate' a vaggeyakara as MD, who revelled in the scientific aspects of music. He did strangely have many krities in the so-called janya raagas of these scales.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp5.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Mar 21 20:10:45 EST 2000
The concept of 'sangatis' is believed to have been introduced by Tyagaraja in his krities. Does this foster artistic freedom or obscure the 'original intent' ??
- From: Nadopasaka (@ abppp21.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Mar 22 13:22:29 EST 2000
speaking of sangatis:
I counted about GNB doing maybe up to 8-9 different repetitions in the 'rajitamaniganabhushani' phrase of Darini Telusukonti (Shu.Sav).
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp19.buffnet.net)
on: Sat Apr 1 03:02:57 EST 2000
The Group Krities of Tyagaraja other than the Ghana Panchakas are the Kshetra Based sets of five
[1] 5 on Kovur Sundareswara
Nammivacchina(kalyani), Korisevimparare (karaharapriya, Sundareswaruni(s'bharanam), EVasudha(Sahana) and SambhoMahadeva(pantuvarali) All use the word 'Sundaresha'. However there is well-known problem with the use of the word 'Gopur' in the Pantuvarali and the S'bharanam. Since the other three use the word 'Kovur', these appearances may be due to incorrect recording of text over the years. However this usage of 'Gopur' persists even today e.g. Bombay Jaysree's Pantuvarali on bharat.com.
[2] 5 on Tiruvotriyur Tripurasundari
DariniTelusukonti (suddha saveri) , Sundari Nannindarilo (begada, NCVasantakokilams surprisingly good non-filmy rendition is on bharat.com), SundaraNeeDivya (kalyani), SundariNinuVarnimpa (arabhi) and KannaTalli (saveri )
The tenor/tone of Sri Tyagaraja's krities/lyrics with regard to overdone rituals may explain why he did not make a big deal of the great temples/kshetras of the Tiruvarur area or Chidambaram,Thanjavur,Ramanathapuram etc. etc. , unlike Muthuswamy Dikshitar, who seems to have never met a temple he didn't like or didn't want to describe.
- From: S (@ wwwgate1.motorola.com)
on: Sun Apr 2 23:14:14 EDT 2000
Nado:
Apart from the kovur and tiruvottriyoor pancharatnams, tyagaraja has also composed the srirangam and lalgudi pancharatnams. The srirangam set contains O rangashayi ( kambodi ), karunajuda ( saranga ), rajuvedala ( thodi ), vinarada ( devagandhari ), jutamurare ( arabhi ). The lalgudi set contains easapahimam ( kalyani ), mahitapravrddha ( kambodi ), devasri ( madhyamavati ), gatininnekori ( thodi ) and lalite ( bhairavi )
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp39.buffnet.net)
on: Sun Apr 2 23:25:15 EDT 2000
S: What are the pointers in the 'Lalgudi' set that identify their grouping ? I can see the 'ranga' motif in the other set. Isapahimam doesnt have the common 'Sri-Pravriddhe' reference like the others.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp30.buffnet.net)
on: Sun Apr 2 23:52:55 EDT 2000
There may also be some 'ksetra' krities of Tyg. based on [1] Panchanada ksetra and [2] DharmaSamvardhani-Dharmambike ? Not sure whether there are 5 or 9 of each ??
- From: S (@ wwwgate1.motorola.com)
on: Mon Apr 3 01:19:10 EDT 2000
Nado:
The presiding deities of Lalgudi ( old name : Tapasteerthapuram ) are Lord Saptarishishwarar and Godess Srimati. The kalyani and madhyamavati are in praise of the former, and todi, bhairavi and kambodi are in praise of the latter. To answer ur q on kalyani easapahimam, the anupallavi-pallavi wrap-around has the word 'saptarisheeshapaahimaam' on the lord. I think u know that St Tyagaraja visited his disciple Lalgudi Ramayya's ( Lalgudi Jayaraman's ancestor ) house in Lalgudi and composed the set. LGJ's sister's name incidentally is srimathi.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp21.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Apr 3 01:40:58 EDT 2000
S, Thanks. No, i had no idea of any house calls made by ST. When came the area to be renamed Lalgudi, must have happened fairly recently ?
Incidentally I saw a cassette with a lady playing violin named Lalgudi srimati Brahmandam. I assumed the srimati was being used as a title ! On an even less serious note, I agree LGJ may actually have a good claim to be called Saptaswararishi.
- From: Siva (@ firestorm3.imrglobal.co.jp)
on: Mon Apr 3 07:00:28 EDT 2000
Nado:
Good assumption though..
- From: Ramji (@ 205.177.170.142)
on: Mon Apr 3 10:24:25 EDT 2000
Nado,
Srimathi was Jayaraman's sister.
I like your blend of serious interest in music and subtle humor.
- From: Ramji (@ 205.177.170.142)
on: Mon Apr 3 10:32:11 EDT 2000
>>Srimathi was Jayaraman's sister.<<
Sorry, she still is:-)
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp50.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Apr 4 03:57:41 EDT 2000
The Kriti 'Vidulaku' in MayaMalavaGowla by Tyagaraja praises the various deities and musical authorities. Apart from the legendary ones such as Narada, Bharata and Agastya ( and many others ) the kriti also mentions Tumburu, Somesvara and Sarangadeva. The choice of the kriti in the raaga often used for beginning teaching of CM ( as per PDasa ) is interestingly enough MMGowla !
Incidentally the MMGowla kriti of Tyagaraja above and also his well known Sitamma Mayamma in Lalita both refer to Guha as well !!
It is well known that MD's first kriti was in MMGowla and paid his respects to one of his Gurus (chidaananda=chidambaranatha yogi ?? ) ( as per Narayanans post elsewhere ). Of course, the MD kriti contains reference to guha !
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