Topic started by Isai Rasigai (@ columbo.lifeworks.com) on Fri Mar 17 09:51:03 .
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Hi Everybody:
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- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 08:53:04 EDT 2000
IR:
Oops pressed "post" too soon...
>>KNV's voice is his biggest asset and biggest drawback<<
It is advantageous because sruti alignment is very easy with his voice and also any sruti lapses is difficult to spot with his style of singing.
On the other hand, he has (had) to compete with musicians like Mah/Semmangudi/etc etc who had a very deep and "attractive" voice.
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Tue May 2 11:13:25 EDT 2000
Narayanan: I am sorry but I have to disagree with you on: >>On the other hand, he has (had) to compete with musicians like Mah/Semmangudi/etc etc who had a very deep and "attractive" voice. <<<
I would say that it is the other way around... KVN sir always says "naabhi lendhu paadanum"... If you want me to compare and rank, KVN has a more attractive voice than Maharajapuram or Semmangudi - He may not attract paamara makkal like maharajapuram did but IMO his voice is "thaen" :) - his voice is indeed deep but melodious - his style of singing is suitable more for men and only he knows how to modulate his voice to achieve that melody - this is the main reason why Anu is not able to do wonders - if you listen to her, she tries to immitate KVN - but she is not able to modulate her voice well and the end result is "kaththal" ::)))
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 11:31:55 EDT 2000
IR:
Thats eactly what i am up to. If KVN tries to sing like his guru or anybody else he would fail miserably. That is because of his voice. He knows its limitations very much and adopted his unique style, which does not suit even his daughter.
That is why, Papanasam Ashok Ramani sometimes seems to be monotonous. He is a sishya of KVN and tries to sing like KVN but could not get the full "effect" out of it. :-))
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Tue May 2 11:48:47 EDT 2000
:) Narayanan
Apparently, H.V. Srivatsan sings "like" KVN - I read some good reviews - but have never heard a concert of his ::)) Looks like he is singing these days ::))
- From: nandini (@ chrla020-0084.splitrock.net)
on: Wed May 10 13:39:25 EDT 2000
Folks, check out carnaticmusic.com for a review of TNS concerts. Read about his concert in Bridgewater temple at NewJersey.
ISAI:Do check out the comments on the violinist!
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Wed May 10 17:28:54 EDT 2000
I did nandini ::))
- From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp18.buffnet.net)
on: Wed May 10 17:38:05 EDT 2000
Hi Isrsgi, How does Hemavati ( a sampurna melakarta ) submit to a graha-bhedam that produces a valid raga ? apparently, the reviewer in the above review is under the impression that the pentatonic Bauli can be produced. Doesn't make any sense.
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Wed May 10 18:06:17 EDT 2000
where is this posting Nado?
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Wed May 10 18:06:49 EDT 2000
are you talking about carnaticmusic.com review?
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp21.buffnet.net)
on: Wed May 10 19:27:31 EDT 2000
Yes, thats the one.
- From: S (@ wwwgate1.motorola.com)
on: Thu May 11 00:04:49 EDT 2000
Nado, u wrote "How does Hemavati ( a sampurna melakarta ) submit to a graha-bhedam that produces a valid raga ? apparently, the reviewer in the above review is under the impression that the pentatonic Bauli can be produced. Doesn't make any sense." Hemavati produces vakulabharanam if ri of hemavati is taken as the basis, kosalam considering ga of hmvti as basis, and keeravani if pa is taken as basis. It is possible to obtain non-sampurna ragas from sampurna ragas if certain swaras are skipped. For eg rgmdnr'-r'ndmgr of hmvti would yield revagupti ( s r1 g3 p d1 s' - same in ava ). Bhowli has an additional ni ( n3 ) in the descent, and is otherwise similar . TNS might have used phrases without this swara, and reviewer would have concluded it is bhowli ( which is not right ).
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Thu May 11 04:43:52 EDT 2000
TNS is especially fond of producing mohana kalyani
from todi.
todi with ri as the adhAra shadjam produces
kalyani but if you skip the requisite swaras, you
get mohana kalyani.
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Thu May 11 04:51:50 EDT 2000
Ravikiran:
TNS normally produces Mohanam from Todi with Ri as aadhaara shadjam. I have seen GNB and Ramnad Krishna do the same.
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Thu May 11 04:52:45 EDT 2000
...i have heard rather...
- From: S (@ wwwgate2.motorola.com)
on: Thu May 11 05:01:27 EDT 2000
GNB, in one recording has used grahabhedam on sindhubhairavi to produce behag. He uses the region between ga and ni of SB along with the chatusruti+suddha dhaivatam to get the sa to pa range of behag, with upper and lower da mapping to upper and lower ma... - nicely done ...
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Thu May 11 05:58:52 EDT 2000
narayanan,
i have heard him do mohana kalyani on 2 occassions.
one was live.
the other was in the music academy '94 concert
recording.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp31.buffnet.net)
on: Thu May 11 06:31:28 EDT 2000
S, I do not think the skipping of swaras can rightly be called 'Graha-bhedam' or Sruti-bhedam. However, is the addition of swaras (cordant or discordant) i.e. the reverse of the above also tolerated ?
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Thu May 11 07:26:57 EDT 2000
S,
what i meant by skipping swaras is that while
treating the R as the adhAra shadjam, one would use the following
scale:
R G M D N R'
R' S' N D P M G R
note that the above scale should be interpret
in todi with the R as the adhAra shadjam.
hope i do not sound ambigous.
- From: S (@ wwwgate2.motorola.com)
on: Thu May 11 07:42:33 EDT 2000
Nado, Skipping of swaras along with a perceived change of tonic ( adhara sruti ) is what we r talking about, in the process of grahabhedam from a complete swara set to a partial swara set. Skipping of swaras constitutes varjya prayoga-s - this is a common practice - eg in a lot of tODi phrases in eranapai varnam, u find the pa being skipped; or in the rendition of MMI's kaalinilchilambu neraval, u find sa and pa skipped in places; such as "r g m d n r " etc. Grahabhedam to mOhanam, say from this phrase, involving sa and pa varjyam ( as Ravi and Narayanan have talked of ) involves changing the perception of the listener to make him believe that the ri is the adhara sruti sa, and thereby, rgmdnr of todi becomes srgpds of mohanam. In general ( keeping aside grhabhd for a moment ) prayogas with skipped swaras need to follow some rules ( of symmetry, dhaatu prayoga etc), and also ensure that the swarupam of raga does not get violated - if ni is constantly skipped in ascent of harikambhoji, it will start sounding like kambhoji. Rgd ur other query, addition of swaras ( other than those in the scale ) for grhbhd or any other purpose is never allowed.
- From: S (@ wwwgate2.motorola.com)
on: Thu May 11 07:44:22 EDT 2000
Ravi, u wanted to respond to Nado's post I guess.
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Thu May 11 08:40:15 EDT 2000
S,
sorry.
that was meant for nado.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp25.buffnet.net)
on: Thu May 11 09:13:56 EDT 2000
Thanks, gentlemen. I have also 'heard' Hindolam in the GNB Todi. But since Hindola is a direct janya of Todi this may be purely based on skipping swaras. Mohana, URavichandrika and Shuddha Saveri are also legitimate murchanas of Hindola and each other, so it is likely these can appear with the subsequent tonic shift. There doesnt appear to be much to preclude drifiting into these, provided the shifts are seamless.
- From: S (@ wwwgate31.motorola.com)
on: Thu May 11 09:27:15 EDT 2000
>>>Mohana, URavichandrika and Shuddha Saveri are also legitimate murchanas of Hindola>>>
Madhyamaavati too !
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Thu May 11 09:29:38 EDT 2000
S:yes ! they are the Pancha Audava Ragas...
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp25.buffnet.net)
on: Thu May 11 09:31:45 EDT 2000
S, thats right. Can the shift to Mohana ( or the other Murchanas ) in Todi occur without the Hindola swarupam emerging first ?
- From: IR (@ 1cust80.tnt4.bos2.da.uu.net)
on: Thu May 11 09:52:15 EDT 2000
well, Nado - I came in this morning only to see a better explanation than what I could have possibly provided to you for your query ... S is right about getting Revgupthi and probably that is what the reviewer "interpreted" as Bowli :)
S, Ravi Kiran and narayanan ... good going :::)) guys it is a lot more fun and informative reading all your postings ....
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Thu May 11 10:06:35 EDT 2000
IR:
You must be joking counting me in..
::--)))))))
I am just an "Edu Pidi" for the experts here...
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Thu May 11 11:28:21 EDT 2000
narayanan :::)) you are being modest - am glad I found this forum :)
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Thu May 11 11:36:46 EDT 2000
IR:
:--))))
I am glad to. More than that i found you guys. :--))) Eventhough we havent seen each other, we certainly see each other's ideas.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp11.buffnet.net)
on: Thu May 11 11:45:10 EDT 2000
In keeping with the warm and fuzzy feelings :-)), let me say that although CM relies on divisiveness, the goal of music may be unite. This forum may be allowing this to happen and we are better off for it.
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Thu May 11 12:24:48 EDT 2000
touche nado!!!
- From: haris (@ inet-fw1-o.oracle.com)
on: Thu May 11 14:58:10 EDT 2000
i'm interested in grabbing the NJ concert recording by TNS. if somebody has it please mail me..
- From: S (@ wwwgate2.motorola.com)
on: Fri May 12 00:22:13 EDT 2000
>>>Can the shift to Mohana ( or the other Murchanas ) in Todi occur without the Hindola swarupam emerging first ?>>> Yes, depends on where u pivot urself and take off :-)
- From: S (@ wwwgate32.motorola.com)
on: Fri May 12 01:32:45 EDT 2000
>>>>>This forum may be allowing this to happen and we are better off for it.<<<<< - my feelings exactly :-)
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