Topic started by Vasu (@ 80.austin-06-07rs.tx.dial-access.att.net) on Tue Feb 29 21:03:54 .
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Ragamalikas have always fascinated me. Finding a raga depicted in 3-4 phrases can be sometimes challenging. We can probably discuss some of the interesting ragamalikas in this thread. |
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- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp46.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Mar 7 00:06:50 EST 2000
It is interesting that almost half the ragamalika varnam composers, based on Lakshman's list, are instrumentalists.
Is there a prescribed order of singing the Ghana Panchakas at the Tyagaraja Aradhana ?
Are there other 'Ghana' ragas than the Ghana Panchakas ? Will Bauli also classify as such ?
Thanks for clarifications.
- From: Isai Rasigai (@ dialup-63.210.129.100.boston1.level3.net)
on: Tue Mar 7 07:59:16 EST 2000
Nadopasaka:
I am not sure if it is a rule or a practice to sing the pancharathnams in Nattai, Gowlai, Aarabhi, varali and Sri (in that order). But that is how musicians have been singing all along.
Ghana raagas include only the above mentioned 5 raagas. Bowli is not part of ghana raagas. It is part of GanaNAVAragamalika varnam to make 9 raagas all together.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp15.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Mar 7 12:08:30 EST 2000
Isai Rasigai, Thanks
I now understand there may be something called the 5 dvitiya ghana ragas, which are Kedaram, NarayanGaula, Reetigaula, Bauli and SARANGANATTA.
Maybe the Shashank piece takes this last raga.
Please confirm either way.
- From: Lakshman (@ hse-kitchener-ppp78700.sympatico.ca)
on: Tue Mar 7 16:16:25 EST 2000
Nadopasaka:
There is no Salanganata in the varnam Inta kopamelara. Shashank must have added this at the end on his own perhaps.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp44.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Mar 7 17:53:20 EST 2000
I agree, Lakshman.
I am wondering if Shashank actually played this piece. If he did play a DasaRagamalika as Vasu suggests, then the tenth raga could be SalangaNatta ( as you pointed out, not SarangaNatta ) . SalangaNatta is very close to Saveri and Bauli, SNatta, Saveri are all MMGowla derived. Bauli is the last in the Intakopa and could be an easy launching point.
Vasu may be able to confirm if this actually shows through.
If on the other hand, it is IntaKopa, then the label is wrong and there are only 9 ragas. Since it is an instrumental piece the lyric may be camouflaged.
Returning to the Dwitiya Ghana ragas, can you confirm their existence ? What is a Ghana raga, one with special madhyama kala features or some other aspects ? Thanks
Thanks
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp7771.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Wed Mar 8 10:45:55 EST 2000
Nadopasaka:
P.Sambamurti states in one of his books: Dvitiya ghana panchakam, a second set of five ghana ragas comprising Kedara, Narayanagaula, Ritigaula, Saranganata (not Salanganata as I had earlier stated)and Bauli. The first set of five ghana ragas include the wellknown Nata, Gaula, Arabhi, Varali and shri.
It is likely that in Kriti manimalai only nine ragas are given and somehow the last ghana raga Saranganata was either omitted or not available to the author.
- From: Vasu (@ s03.austin.ibm.com)
on: Wed Mar 8 11:39:57 EST 2000
I have not heard Saranganatta before so I cant give an "exact" answer, but I will listen to it again and figure out if the last one is not Bauli, which I can identify.
- From: Isai Rasigai (@ dialup-63.210.131.148.boston1.level3.net)
on: Wed Mar 8 12:39:31 EST 2000
the order of the remaining four ragams are narayana gowlai, rithi gowlai, bowli and kedaram.
It is interesting to note that Saranga Natta has been omitted if dvithiya gana ragas were what Veena Kuppaiyer had in mind!! os is it just a co-incidence!
- From: Nadopasaka (@ afppp7.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Mar 8 14:58:13 EST 2000
Vasu,
As Isai Rasigai notes you may have to look for Saveri type phrases between Bauli and Kedaram. since Bauli is penultimate in the known listing.
( I am assuming SarangaNatta lies between Bauli and Kedaram . SarangaNatta, SalangaNatta, Saveri and Bauli all spring from MMGowla ) . Otherwise Intakopa is what is being played and the cover is incorrect in referring to 10 ragas.
I doubt if KritiManiMalai would miss this or that somehow VeenaK. students lost one of the ragas. Of course VeenaK may have never intended a 10 raga chain.
O
Unless you can confirm that IntaKopa is what is being played and has only 9 ragas.
- From: Vasu (@ s04.austin.ibm.com)
on: Thu Mar 9 08:54:34 EST 2000
Mystery of the extra raga:
Luckily I found i have two recordings of Inta kopa - one by E.Gayathri and another Shashank. Gayathri's rendering has only nine ragas, while Shashank has definitely 10. However the lineup of ragas seem to be different for Chitta Swaras. Gayathri plays it as: (after Sri) CS1, Ritigaula, Bauli, Kedaram. "CS1" is i believe should be narayanagaula (i have not heard it before, but it didnt seem to have its janaka notes). Shashank plays: CS1, Bauli, Ritigaula, CS2, Kedaram. I have no doubt that there is a different raga between Ritigaula & Kedaram, since I could identify the other ragas (and also compared it with Gayathri's to make sure). But CS2 didnt seem to have MMG notes (as i expected for Saranganatta). Instead CS1 (which i expected to be narayanagaula) seemed to have MMG notes. Could it be that he played saranga natta, bauli, ritigaula, narayanagaula, kedaram? Or may be I am wrong.
One way to find it is the "length" of chitta swaras. in varnams i believe the "length" increases by step, if you guys could let me know, i think theres a good chance of nailing it down. thx
- From: Isai Rasigai (@ dialup-63.210.155.146.boston1.level3.net)
on: Thu Mar 9 09:09:33 EST 2000
Vasu:
You are right about: "One way to find it is the "length" of chitta swaras. in varnams i believe the "length" increases by step" ::)) that was funny the way you put it :::)))
Naarayana Gowlai ( A Janyam of harikhaambodhi - 28) Sa ri ma pa ni dha ni sa - Sa ni dha ma ga ma ha ma ga ri sa - there are other versions too for the avarohanam) - 1 Aavarthanam (line)
Rithi Gowlai - 2 Aavarthanams
Bowli - 2 aavarthanams
Kedharam - 4 Aavarthanams
I am not sure about Saaranga Naatta as I believe that it is not part of the varnam as composed by V. Kuppaiyer
- From: Vasu (@ s05.austin.ibm.com)
on: Thu Mar 9 12:03:34 EST 2000
IsaiRasigai:
Narayanagaula: 1 Avarthanam [ah! theres the right word thx :) ] is the clue. I will check it again today.
afa, Ritigaula = bauli = 2 avarthanams, looks like it doesnt matter when Gayathri/Shashank played it in diff. orders.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ afppp6.buffnet.net)
on: Thu Mar 9 13:21:13 EST 2000
NarayanaGaula has some history. In a contest between MahaVaidyanath Iyer and another vidwan, apparently this raga was substituted at the last minute by MVI, so that the other vidwan could not relate to it and hence develop it after MVI (story from Sambamurty). SSI has sung MD's SriRamam RaviKulabdhisomam. VeenaK i think has a kriti in it also.
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