Topic started by Shyam Laxminarayan (@ snfca020-0102.splitrock.net) on Tue May 2 01:17:40 .
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Hello,
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Responses:
- From: Nadopasaka (@ afppp15.buffnet.net)
on: Tue May 2 08:18:20 EDT 2000
OK :-)) , MSanth = Disaster :-)) , Disaster may be a bit extreme but he never intrigues me. Most of the ideas are finished / expressed in the first 2 minutes. Just an opinion. There is a Shankarabharanam I heard by hhim SriChandrashekhara ??... sritajana vana mulam. Who is the composer of this ??
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 09:15:10 EDT 2000
MSanthu=Disaster :-0)) may be for the person who is looking for "Classical" music. But one has to give him credit for his efforts to populatise Carnatic music, his power to attract masses,and his PR techniques.
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 09:16:33 EDT 2000
Nado:
>>There is a Shankarabharanam I heard by hhim SriChandrashekhara ??... sritajana vana mulam. Who is the composer of this ??<<
MSanth would call it as a MD krithi !! :-))))
- From: Nadopasaka (@ afppp15.buffnet.net)
on: Tue May 2 09:19:29 EDT 2000
Narayanan :-)))))) :-)))))
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Tue May 2 09:21:19 EDT 2000
i feel MSanth takes out the "gatthu" in a krithi
and replaces it with his pallid melodic strains.
still, each to his own!!!
no one can deny him his rightful place in the
musical hall of fame!!!
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Tue May 2 11:17:56 EDT 2000
::::))))) guys
Maharajapuram is good at singing thukkadas ::))) he is patient with his audience and tries to sing as many as possible ::)))
As far as the main piece goes, I have heard the same Shankarabharanam at the same Sabha - 3 consecutive years :::)) (and same patterns ::::::::))))) - could not resist that :::))
But, I believe he is very nice as a person :)
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 11:34:17 EDT 2000
IR:
>>, I have heard the same Shankarabharanam at the same Sabha - 3 consecutive years :::)) (and same patterns ::::::::)))))<<
I have heard him sing Mohanam at more than 10 places. But avarukku Inaiku oru ragam naalaikku oru ragam kidayaadhu.. Eppovumey adhey ragam dhaan :-)))
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Tue May 2 11:40:49 EDT 2000
Good one :::::)))))))))))) narayanan
adhula mohana kumaraa nnu vera maharajapuram ramachandrana kaattuvaar :::)))
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Tue May 2 11:45:07 EDT 2000
i was just curious.
is a musician judged by the crowd that he draws or
by the quality of his music?
because, crowd can be gauged very objectively
while quality relies more on one's subjective
analysis.
i think this would definitely be an interesting
argument in the case of MSanth
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 12:01:16 EDT 2000
Ravikiran:
Your question just reminds me of a dialogue between Azharkkadiyan nambi and a saivite in Kalki's Ponniyin selvan.
The Saivite argues that since there are 63 nayanmars and only 18 alwars, Saivism is bigger than Vaishnavis. Azhvarkkadiyan counters with the statement "There are 5 pandavas and 100 kauravas. Who was the best ?"
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Tue May 2 12:08:36 EDT 2000
narayanan,
well said :::))))
(hope the vaishnava/shaiva thing was used just
as an anecdote:::)))))
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 12:19:53 EDT 2000
Ravikiran:
:--))) It is just and anectode.....
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 12:20:56 EDT 2000
..OoOops... typo..
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Tue May 2 12:21:59 EDT 2000
so, i guess the argument goes clearly against
MSanth - 'coz it is almost accepted that his
depth was not quite there and on the other hand
his concerts were always jam packed.
so, moral of the story: ....... :--)
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue May 2 12:28:56 EDT 2000
Ravi Kiran:
...obivious...MSanth Enjoys in "nuni pul meyaradhu". He does not cherish (may be not understand) values of more neo classical parts of music :-0))))
- From: Srini (@ tide76.microsoft.com)
on: Tue May 2 16:31:22 EDT 2000
Hello all,
Does anyone here have his rendition of Mundu
Venuka (Darbar ragam)?
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Tue May 2 17:40:45 EDT 2000
Lakshman... I need help with lyrics for a song in Neelambari that Maharajapuram sings ... it goes something like "thaalaattu paadum...." "kan valaraai guruvaayoorappa..." Pleaseeeeeee :)
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp2654.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Tue May 2 18:13:09 EDT 2000
IR:
Is Thaalaattu paadum the beginning words of the song?
- From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38812.sympatico.ca)
on: Tue May 2 18:20:15 EDT 2000
IR:
I checked again on my list but I am sorry I don't have the lyrics for the Krishnadasan song. But I can give you three cassette references where Santhanam has recorded the song. AVM 60B 484/485, Gitaa GCT 518 and Vani 6SEI 615. Hope it helps.
- From: haris (@ inet-fw1-o.oracle.com)
on: Tue May 2 19:08:45 EDT 2000
IR,
thAlAttu pAdum endhan madhura gAnam kEttu
neeyum - kanvalarAi guruvAyoorappA..
mElAna undhan sannidhi vandhadaindhOm..
cannot recollect after that..
(yEdhO ennAla mudinjadhu..) :-)
- From: Mandar (@ 203.197.56.146)
on: Wed May 3 03:28:17 EDT 2000
Well Santhanam and SSI share the same guru.(Maharajapuram Vishwanath Iyer.) dont they.?So obvoiusly the role of the guru comes into focus here because of the apparent difference in Class
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.210.136.46.boston1.level3.net)
on: Wed May 3 08:43:53 EDT 2000
Lakshman - thanks for the cassette info... that helps as usual :)
haris... good show ::)) it goes something like melaana undhaan darisanam?...
this is a beautiful song :)
- From: M. RAMACAHANDRAN (@ 149.123.110.57)
on: Thu May 4 10:16:14 EDT 2000
Can anybody let me know the composer of the following song, sung by Sri Maharajapuram Santhanam?
Sri Chakra Raja- Ragamalikai
Is it Nochchur Swamigal from Palghat?
I would appreciate a quick response, because it is needed.
R.M.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp32.buffnet.net)
on: Thu May 4 10:31:40 EDT 2000
I am under the impression that SriChakraRajaSimhasane Gowri...SriLalite??.. maybe a composition of Agastyar. however, better to have an accurate response than a quick one.
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp7795.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Thu May 4 11:52:39 EDT 2000
R.M.: The song shri chakraraja simhasaneshvari shri lalitambike is indeed the composition of Agastyar.
- From: Gopal (@ nandi3.lsa.berkeley.edu)
on: Thu May 4 20:58:33 EDT 2000
IR
if you call santhanam thukkada raja then my pleasant observation is sudha raghu is unchallenged thukkada rani.
next, to others talking about agasthyar writing srichakraraja...: By the by how anyone knows about authenticity agasthyar's authorship of srichakraraja...
next, for all these humdrum, is there any electronic bank of organised tamizh krithis?
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp45.buffnet.net)
on: Thu May 4 21:47:54 EDT 2000
I am unable to see how MSanthanam's expertise or lack thereof with tukkadas has anything to do with SudhaRs tukkada expertise ( or lack thereof ). Was SudhaR a student of MSanth. after MLV passed on ??
- From: kartik (@ 203.197.54.20)
on: Fri May 5 00:30:46 EDT 2000
As far as I know Sudha R had only two teachers.
BV Raman and Laxman initially
and then of course
MLV.
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.214.94.41.boston1.level3.net)
on: Fri May 5 10:11:46 EDT 2000
Gopal: ::))
Sudha may sing a lot of thukkadas but she is also capable of really hard core heavy classical renditions :::)))
I do not want to compare and contrast gnaanams to 2 vidhwans - but any day Sudha would win :)!
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.214.94.41.boston1.level3.net)
on: Fri May 5 10:12:09 EDT 2000
typo : gnaanams of
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.214.94.41.boston1.level3.net)
on: Fri May 5 10:14:46 EDT 2000
Sudha used to learn from T M Thyagarajan even while MVL was alive and then they would "adapt" those songs to their style of singing - Namaami vigna vinaayaka, charanam bhava, Muralidhara gopala, muruganin maru peyar azhagu are a few such krithis!.....
- From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Fri May 5 10:48:15 EDT 2000
IR:
SR Still lacks some "classism". She does not sing pure Classical music as you would expect from a sishya of TMT and MLV.
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.214.87.139.boston1.level3.net)
on: Fri May 5 16:12:59 EDT 2000
Narayanan - I think SR is capable of a lot more "orthodox" rendering... She has also unfortunately joined the gang of musicians interested in counting their success by "houseful" kutcheris..
- From: Vasu (@ s01.austin.ibm.com)
on: Fri May 5 18:58:29 EDT 2000
Narayanan,
Just like IR, i too think SR is capable of a lot more true classic rendering. Her RTP on Latangi is one of the wonderful ones(BMG). I would say if she does less of "orchestra" kutcheris and more of hard-core classical, we could probably see another stalwart in making...Otherwise, it wouldnt be surprising to see her soon emulating Unni/Nithyasree singing for ARR or Deva (eesh!)
- From: Gopal (@ spider-tj041.proxy.aol.com)
on: Sat May 6 01:00:26 EDT 2000
Hi all,
nice that i provoked an `intellectually stimulating' interaction.
1. I have no clue about the other topics being discussed here, but yesterday's inauguration started witha passing observation. this was not intended to drag hardcore musicians who have spent best oftheir days being trained under maesteros. it is easy to listen to their CDs and comment from new york or sydney. i would never want to be intheir shoes just for the input of work involved. so i continue with due apologies.
2. vasu, we have to thank ARR and Deva with an eesh, for identifying nithya and unni for what they are actually capable of!!! thinking of their
background's: a. that of nithya's- generations of
musicians in whose veins the music flowed, who dedicated their lives to streamline sruthi and laya b. that of unni's: who names without fail (even at MIT, MA,USA) his gurus of yore and present. Now, they spend more time and mental energy to appease the millions thru ARR or Deva (with a eesh)at the cost of quality sangeetham. imagine, either of them turning out to be puritan like mlv or semmangudi or chembai dedicating their
possible larger material gains for lesser (comparatively equal to a successful system analyst in a silicon valley, of course)!! how many souls they would enrich, how many generations of youth they would foster in future, how many roots they woud nourish... no sirs!!ARR has more potent attractant than the unnamed rasika who spends his day's earnings to buy a CDor
the sabha ticket!! why not, if everything is music, Deva is good task master in that!!!
3. i go back to rajaraja chola's time when we had the first more civilised, economically strong tamizh society with the king having enough to
maintain all artists and scholars. may be sudha and other housefull-seeking charming artistes would have had louder applause and done better when there were more abundant talents... but at one point of time now,
somebody has to make them understand that what they are the product of centuries old of toil their guru parampara. they are only the (actually) voice echoing their gurus nada. nay narayanan, housefull applause is louder than sheer logic!!
i welcome all criticisms. still, shrichakraraja simhasini is of 20th century tamizh, compared to
nadi tamizh from the age-old palm leaves. unless, agasthya took a short walk down to the plains to write this in the early 20 the century!!!
sincerely,
Gopal
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp19.buffnet.net)
on: Tue May 9 02:27:15 EDT 2000
Is Visakha Santhanam , now on kutchery.com ,any relation to the MSanthanam family ?
Perhaps Lakshman can confirm ( once and for all ) the Agasthyar kriti. Maybe also give the entire text of the kriti (srichakraraja). Gopal should post his version also. Thanks. What are the other krities by this chap, if any ?
It is my understanding that many CM artistes are actually quite bewildered by deafening applause. They are often unsure how their lofty musical ideas/kanakku obtained such wide and immediate access to lay listeners. Such applause may actually be out of their control, especially int the West. The idiotic listeners may actually be cheering apa-shrutis (re. recent TNS). However concern over the gate receipts can separate the philistines from the classicists.
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