Topic started by Rajaraman (@ 210.24.206.2) on Sun Aug 9 05:33:13 .
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- From: IR (@ dialup-209.244.123.63.boston1.level3.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 08:54:35 EST 2000
Nado, now diverting my attention to your query on pahadi vs Vaasanthi (as I believe!)
There is a Paadi and a Pahaadi, I believe
Paadi is a MayamaalavaGowla janyam - so except the rishabam - vaasanthi could sound like a few MG janyas like Revagupthi, bowli etc.. Sri Gurunaa - MD is a good song in Paadi
I have listened to a thillaana in Pahaadi by S.Kalyanaraman - I think it is a ShankaraBharana Janya Ragam
- From: IR (@ dialup-209.244.123.63.boston1.level3.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 08:57:38 EST 2000
excuse me - I checked a CD by Hyderabad brothers - the thillaana in Pahaadi is by Lalgudi Jayaraman..
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp24.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 20:00:49 EST 2000
That GNB piece was something else (sorry) RadhasametaKrishna ?? . Are there any words available for the Jayadeva Ashtapadi RadhikaKrishna ? I remember MSS may have sung something but it was not JS or Vaasanthi. also had words like 'virahe keshava' if I am not wrong.
This VKRaman rendition of Vaasanthi on the Web does borrow some techniques from Hariprasads style. But the beauty of Vaasanthi come through. I think he has a fairly rousing Shankarabharanam and Maravairi (Naasamani) as well. It seems to me this VKR chap does not know how to take an unmelodious phrase. Looking for more info. on him. Thanks in advance.
- From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38823.sympatico.ca)
on: Mon Mar 27 20:14:08 EST 2000
The song Radhika krishna is the 9th Ashtapadi of Jayadeva and it is short. Here are the words:
pallavi: rAdhikA krSNA (rAdhikA)
anupallavi" rAdhikA virahE tava kEshava (rAdhikA)
caraNam: shrI jayadEva phaNitamiti gItam
sukhayatu kEshava padamupanItam (rAdhikA)
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp7816.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Tue Mar 28 13:49:39 EST 2000
Nadopasaka:
Lalitbhatiyar is not like a folktune. It is a very sweet combination of Lalit and Bhatiyar. You should listen to Bhimsen Joshi's 'O Kartar', a khayal, in this raga. North Indians are adept at composing Samyukta ragas much more than karnatak composers. Ragas like Kalashri, Basantbahar, Bageshrikanada, Marubehag are a pleasure to listen to. Innovations using very complicated aro/avaros
of ragas are not uncommon. Examples are Chandranandan, Kaushikaranjani etc.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp8.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Mar 28 14:27:24 EST 2000
Lakshman, I have heard Bhimsen on tape and in person. No two of his Lalit Bhatiyaars are identical. The framework for improvising is much looser. Mishra raagas are the frontier for this brave, new world.
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp7847.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Wed Mar 29 11:05:14 EST 2000
A new crop of kritis in rare ragas.
Sadashivam sadashraye-Hamsagamani-Rupaka-Muttiah Bhagavatar-j23
Kamajanaka kapadutaku-Hamsagiri-Adi-Tiruvettiyur Tyagayya-j52
Bhajamyaham satatam-Hamsakalyani-Adi-Ashok R.Madhav-j65
Vandeham sada sharada-Hamsanantini-C/Triputa-Jayachamaraja Waiar-j18
Brova niku-Hamsanarayani-Adi-Tiruvettiyur Tyagayya-j51
Vadalur vallala vazhipadu-Hamsapanchama-Adi-Arindarkkiniyanar-j21
Shrinatha paripalayamam-Hamsarupini-Adi-B.K.Padmanabha Rao-j28
Tittikkum ten amude-Hamsavahini-Adi-Kadalur Subramaniam-j21
Gokulavana bhaktaloka-Hamsavinodini-Adi-Pallavur Mani Iyer-j29
Haraye namo namaste-Haridarpa-Adi-C.S.Shivaramakrishna Bhagavatar-j17
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp18.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Mar 29 13:36:36 EST 2000
Lakshman Is there any raaga (rare or otherwise) beginning with 'HaNsa' and not Hamsa- ?
As an aside, are there any janya raagas in melas # 67 through # 72. Even Kanakambari (m 1)admits only the janya SuddhaMukhari, I think.
Thanks for your help.
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp10304.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Wed Mar 29 14:54:15 EST 2000
Nadopasaka:
There are severel ragas under mela 1 and under melas 67 to 72. All of these have compositions in them.
Mela 1: Kanakatodi, Karnatakashuddhasaveri, Kondamalahari, Latantapriya, Lavangi, Rishabhavilasa, Sarvashri, Tatillatika and Vagishvari.
Mela 67: Santanamanjari
Mela 68: Jyotishmati, Ramagiri
Mela 69: Dhautapanchama, Dvitiyapanchama, Sumukham and Tavapriya
Mela 70: Marakatagaula, Nasamani and Tilakamandari
Mela 71: Ayodhya and Kusumakara
Mela 72: Hamsagiri, Ishtatarangini, Nagagiri and Rasamanjari
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp7964.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Wed Mar 29 15:00:20 EST 2000
Nadopasaka:
There are no ragas starting with Hans. All of them start with Hams. In hindustani music, they substitute n for m like in Hansdhvani, Hansnarayani, Hanskalyan, Hanskinkini, Hansashri etc.
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.210.129.229.boston1.level3.net)
on: Wed Mar 29 20:13:46 EST 2000
Lakshman - do you also have info on who created some of these rare ragas?
Thanks
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp87.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Mar 29 21:15:22 EST 2000
Lakshman, thanks. There appears to no meaning for the word Hansa but Hamsa is either a swan, goose or flamingo etc. Hamsagamani would probably be the walk or gait of one of these fowl. HMB has a kriti in this. But Hansdhwani, which Hariprasad and AmirKhan have used may be derived from a word for smiling or laughter = hasya ?. Lufthansa may only mean MaxMueller got more than just a few things wrong.
What are the swaras (aro-ava) of this Hansadhwani?
Isrsgi I think the melakartas were put together by repeated srutibheda on MMgowla ?? maybe by Venkitamakhi ?
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.210.129.228.boston1.level3.net)
on: Thu Mar 30 07:41:32 EST 2000
Nado: The Melakartha Raaga formation, I believe, was more based on a combination of the 12 notes than anything else.... It has been meticulously and logically worked out.... I am not aware of Venkitamahi working from the Sruthibedham angle to arrive at 72 melakarthas.... Well, now that is an interesting angle, I have already driven people around here nuts trying to do a sruthibedham of MG - thanks to you Nado :::))))
If Hansadhwani = Hamsadhwani(Carnatic) the aro/avaro is:
sa ri2 ga2 pa ni2 sa
sa ni2 pa ga2 ri2 sa
- From: Siva (@ firestorm3.imrglobal.co.jp)
on: Thu Mar 30 23:59:56 EST 2000
Some more additions to the rare ragas & Comp
Evvare Ramaiya - Kangeya Bushani - Thyagaraja
Sanku Chakra - Poornachandrika - Dikshitar
Rama Bhakti - Suddhabangala
Samayamide - Buda manohari - HMB
Vinatha Suthava - Jayanthasena
There is one more "Urmika". I heard this in Bombay Jayashree casette but not able to remember the song.
Is there is any Trinity krithi in Malayamarutham. I have a couple of songs in Purandaradasa and also Dhanu Brovado of Patnam Sub Iyer
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp14.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Mar 31 01:30:46 EST 2000
Siva, ManasaEtulo by Tyag, SmaraneVande by PDasa are two I know of. All Chakravakam janyas are very catchy. Isrsgi :-0 :-))
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp14.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Mar 31 01:32:25 EST 2000
oops almost forgot Karpagamanohara by Papanasam Shivan in MMrutam
- From: Siva (@ firestorm3.imrglobal.co.jp)
on: Fri Mar 31 02:51:00 EST 2000
Nadopasaka:
Thanks for reminding the Manasaetulo piece. I am not sure if we can really call P'Dasas piece in any particular raga as singers sing them in various ragas. I was just now hearing Karpagamanohara by OST after typing my last msg.
- From: Narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Fri Mar 31 02:55:29 EST 2000
Siva:
>>Sanku Chakra - Poornachandrika - Dikshitar
Samayamide - Buda manohari - HMB
Vinatha Suthava - Jayanthasena <<
DKJ used to sing all these krithis very regularly.
Chanka Chakra is sung by various other artists (ex: BV RAMAN bros).
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp14.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Mar 31 03:21:24 EST 2000
Hi Siva If you are in Japan, you may want to watch out for the 'volcano' . Hope OST's Malayamarutam doesn't make you ignore the real Malayaeruption.
- From: Siva (@ firestorm3.imrglobal.co.jp)
on: Fri Mar 31 04:07:33 EST 2000
Nadopasaka
Yes i live in tokyo. Had a look at the volcano on the TV. The malai-eruption preceeded the Mala(i)yamarutham.
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.210.152.219.boston1.level3.net)
on: Fri Mar 31 06:31:58 EST 2000
:::))) guys
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp21.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Mar 31 22:40:05 EST 2000
One more Malayamarutam - Nee Dasula, may actually be found on the bharat.com site by Hyd. Bros. Don't know whose composition it is.
It is interesting that MD has 3-4 krities in the mela 16, chakravakam= vegavahini and nothing in its janyas as far as I can tell e.g., Bindumalini, Valaji, Mrutam, Kalavati. Maybe they were too catchy ( or trashy ) for his taste. Tyagarajas risque ?! Bindumalini which referrs to lusting for the mother-in-law in EntaMuddo may have upset our prim hero. Even the close Abhogi ( janya of the 'hated' Kharaharapriya was scorned by MD )
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp10266.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Sun Apr 2 08:49:39 EDT 2000
Nadopasaka:
Ni dasula bhangamulu nivu jutura is a composition of Annamacharya.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp46.buffnet.net)
on: Sun Apr 2 10:35:35 EDT 2000
Lakshman , Thanks . It is my understanding that Venkitamakhi applied sruti/graha bhedam ( and suddha/prati madhyama flipping ) in the course of organising his 72 raaga asampurna mela schemes and the 12 chakras, based on 12 notes. Can you comment on this, based on modern textbooks ?
Do ALL the rare raagas we are coming across fall appropriately into this 72 mela scheme ( now sampurna ) or do we also need additional enlarged mela schemes ?
- From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38816.sympatico.ca)
on: Fri Apr 7 15:51:39 EDT 2000
More kritis in rare ragas.
Ramachandra nannu-Haridasapriya-Adi-P.Sambamurti-j27/28
Komala nalina-Harihamsa-Adi-N.S.Ramachandran-j ?
Dayamado dayamado-Harikalyani-Adi-Dasappadasa-J ?
Palimpu vemanna-Harikedara-Jhampa-Vinai Krishnamacharya-j28
Devi shri mahalakshmi-Harinarayani-Rupaka-Muttiah Bhagavatar-j22
Tele makkala eledata-Harini-Jhampa-P.T.Narasimhachar-j28
Mam pahi murahara-Haripriya-T/Adi-Indira Shrinivasan-j27
Vellai tamarai-Harisarasvati-Rupaka-Subramania Bharati-j ?
Hari kodanda khandano-Haritapriya-Adi-C.S.Shivaramakrishna Bhagavatar-j 28
Himagiri kumari-Hemambari-Adi-Muttusvami Dikshitar-J 13
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Fri Apr 7 15:54:44 EDT 2000
Thanks Lakshman
>>Vellai tamarai-Harisarasvati-Rupaka-Subramania Bharati-j ? <<< - is this raga Bharathiar's version of Abheri? or was it a name that he just came up with? The popular version of vellai thaamarai is in aaberi - so who sings it in Harisarasvati or do you haveinfo on who associated this raga with this song Lakshman???
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