Topic started by knpradeep (@ 212-42-97-70.elcat.kg) on Fri Jun 29 04:38:48 .
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I am a fan of Yesudas and I would like to know why he is not considered as a complete classical singer. Will someone agree that he has the uncanny ability to mix caranatic music with Hindustani music, if that is the case then can we conclude that he deserves a special mention in classical music. |
Responses:
- From: Rajesh (@ qrchy0e1.nortelnetworks.com)
on: Fri Jun 29 14:40:15
There is no doubt...
He is just great!!!
- From: Shyam (@ nandi3.lsa.berkeley.edu)
on: Fri Jun 29 22:16:54
How can anyone not consider him a carnatic classical singer, being the disciple of Chembai, having been accompanied by stars such as Lalgudi and TN Krishnan several times?
I think he is a very good singer, just that he is repetitive a lot, sings the same songs over and over and over...
- From: raghu (@ 164.164.79.36)
on: Mon Jul 2 07:47:15
It is highly unfair for people not to consider him as a carnatic singer just bcoz he basically sings lots of film songs.In fact i have one tape in which he renders a raga called Triveni,which is a janya of vachaspati like hell.He is an absolute master of the medium but over the years his rendititon style has worsened and that is not a great sin if we conside so many stalwarts who too have suffered from the same syndrome.And he looks at the audiences and if they r not upto the mark,he sings in a light music style.Also he doesnt take much efforts to satisfy a hard core listener.Swaras,alapanais and neravals have become very rare in his concerts.He shd come out of this and give a full blooded concert and shd bring the essensce of the raga for 45 minutes at least.i heard a concert of him in april here in bangalore where he was singing songs like light music - ie only sahitya(but his diction is impeccable).If he comes out of this he will be regarded as the greatest.Also he talks too much during his concerts.
- From: Umesh (@ proxy3-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com)
on: Fri Jul 6 12:45:04
Hello, I too am a fan of Yesudas. Although he may sing a variety of film songs, he does them justice, as he does carnatic music justice. That is the main requirement. In addition, many of his movie songs are purely classical, though I have seem them listed as semi-classical. I think it is time that people realized that movie songs can also be classical. I especially find his Parama Purusha Jagadeeshwara Jaya Jaya Pankaja Naba (mudra) Murare(purely classical) in the movie Swathi Thirunal extremely beautiful with Veena accompaniment in the beginning of the song. This continues until Vausudevan takes over the second half of the song which, in my opinion, is a big contrast from Yesudas which does not suit the song well. There is only one other problem that I experienced with this song... and that is I do not know if it is in praise of Vishnu or Shiva! Could someone clarify this?
- From: BERNARD SINNIAH (@ 193.113.118.149)
on: Fri Jul 6 18:21:49
just the best... no question about it......
- From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk)
on: Mon Jul 9 09:10:57
" many of his movie songs are purely classical, though I have seem them listed as semi-classical"
How do you make this classification? Kriti structure? based on raga not western scale? etc?
- From: narayanan (@ 194.193.249.33)
on: Mon Jul 9 10:27:55
nick:
I never consider him as a classial singer. He is good at light classical stuff though. he lacks proper patanthram of krithis. Also he laks depth in ragam elaboration and substance in other manodharma aspects. The krithi structure is very poor and some prayohams (handling of ragams) are not authentic. His music(carnatic) is much inferior when compared to today's youngsters such as Sanjay, Vijay and even Unni.
He is a great vocalist when it comes to light classical no doubt.!
- From: Umesh (@ proxy3-external.etntwn1.nj.home.com)
on: Mon Jul 9 21:21:08
Nick:
I make this classification based on many things, not only raga. Many modern film songs even use Carnatic and Hindustani ragas. I am a Bharatha Natyam dancer and of course songs used for pure dance are always classical such as the one I mentioned earlier. As Narayanan might say, perhaps Yesudas isn't as versatile with his kriti renditions, but nevertheless, he does sing classical music. For example, since when do you hear nattuvangam in SEMI-classical music???
- From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk)
on: Tue Jul 10 09:27:10
Umesh...
"For example, since when do you hear nattuvangam in SEMI-classical music???" --- well, in my limited experience of *film* music, quite often!
Narayanan...
"patanthram" define please? My knowledge of technical terms outside laya is very limited!
As to my personal opinion, I think JKY has a wonderful velvet voice, but I can think of others who do too whose classical singing I much prefer. I won't add who in particular, as there is no point in starting an X versus Y argument amongst us!
- From: Pradeep (@ 212-42-97-94.elcat.kg)
on: Wed Jul 11 03:15:30
I initiated this thread to get a good healthy debate on Yesudas. I am happy to see that there is a good argument going. I feel that one reason why the traditionalists do not like Yesudas is because he does not happen to be Hindu. If that is true then we are not doing justice to one of the best musicians India has seen. I am a Hindu and I do hope that people can divorce religious and political considerations when you analyze the contribution made by musicians not only in the case of Yesudas but any form of music. The greatest contribution made by Yesudas is the fact that he promoted the cause of classical music which otherwise would have been confined to a few people.
- From: narayanan (@ 194.193.249.33)
on: Wed Jul 11 04:43:13
Nick:
"Patanthram" is to do with the rendition of the krithi, the way the composer intended. Yesudas's krithi rendition is not perfect. Many krithi are of his tunes and not of the composer's.
Pradeep:
Relegion comes LAST. All that we are talking is about his music and not his caste, relegion and the number of dosas he eats every morning !
I am a big fan of his light classical music and bhajans stuff but when it comes to Carnatic music, he fails miserably. I beg to differ when you say that he is the main cause of promoting Carnatic Music. How can he promote CM when people say that what he sings is not CM ! ?
Carnatic music is not just singing "Kshirasagara Sayana" or any other krithi. It is much much more than that.
- From: pradeep (@ 212-42-97-183.elcat.kg)
on: Thu Jul 12 03:44:07
Narayanan:
Chembai would not have agreed with you that Yesudas cannot sing classical music. Chembai considered Yesudas as one of the best disciple that he had.
With regard to your argument Yesudas does not adhere to the Krithi of the original composer I will agree that you have a point there. But I think even some other carnatic musicians including Balamurali Krishnan's Krithi rendition have deviated from the original composer. So I do not think that we can use that as an issue to decide whether Yesudas is a classical or semi-classical singer.
Now whether one likes it or not Yesudas has popularised classical music among a wider segment of the populace who previously could not connect with this form of music. I will even argue that one of the reason why films started portaying classical music in the south was precisely because of Yesudas (there are a number of songs where nattuvangam was introduced for instance).
I am confident that future generations will be more pragmatic in judging Yesudas as a classical singer.
- From: Siby (@ 61.11.12.9)
on: Thu Jul 12 06:28:14
Exactly, Pradeep.
Yesudas has played a greater role in popularising Carnatic Music among the common folks(who otherwise had little chance to take to CM) than anyone we can think of on a random analysis. How qualitatively good a singer that Yesudas is is open to discussion. We can have thread-bare discussions on it. But has not Yesudas popularised CM?
It's not a big concern if his music has not stood upt to the highest standards of CM as the people among whom he has popularised CM move up the ladder in the course of time and practice.
I'm all for more Yesudases to popularise Carnatic Music as also for those to pristinely keep the classicism of CM.
Think of it. Does not the love of CM demand that it may be enjoyed by those who are unfortunately denied of (I mean by circumstances and depravities) that wonderful gift?
I really wonder but for Yesudas, how popular CM would have been in Kerala and TN!
- From: GV (@ hse-london-ppp206982.sympatico.ca)
on: Thu Jul 12 09:09:44
I agree with pradeep and Siby about how Yesudas played/plays a major role in popularizing CM. His Patanthram and kriti rendition are open to debate. I know experts in Carnatic music who feel that Yesudas's rendition of some of the classic pieces sound more pleasing than the well known renditions of other well known singers.
Narayan: If you have any doubts about Yesudas popularizing CM, please visit any of the concert halls in Chennai during the kutcheri season. A lot of the established singers (with perfect kriti rendition) sing to half-empty halls, whereas Yesudas's concerts are always oversold. People often have to sit on the stage or stand outside to listen to the concert.
- From: nick (@ host.sumitomomarine.co.uk)
on: Thu Jul 12 09:53:55
" If you have any doubts about Yesudas popularizing CM, ... ... ..., whereas Yesudas's concerts are always oversold."
Well, that argues for the popularity of KJY, not that he has made CM in general any more popular.
- From: Siby (@ 61.11.12.9)
on: Thu Jul 12 10:07:39
Nick,
>>Well, that argues for the popularity of KJY, not that he has made CM in general any more popular.
Yesudas popularity has become a vehicle to spread Carnatic music among the uninitiated. If it is to just see Yesudas, why should people come to a classical music concert? Yesudas's public appearances are not limited to classical music concerts alone.
- From: Puduhai Sreeram (@ 134.243.60.59)
on: Thu Jul 12 10:53:35
It is true that Yesudas ropes in a lot of uninitiated to c.music. His concerts may have a full house but that does not mean anything when it comes to classifying someone as "complete classical singer". I think the original question by Pradeep was just that -- why is he not considered a complete classical singer? Narayanan has answered it. Yesudas like Balamurali has a very polarized following. People either love his singing or just despise it completely. This topic has been discussed time and again without any final outcome! ;-)
Truly great ones will stand the test of time. Rest of them would be cast by the wayside. There was this singer from Bobbilli who called himself "sangitha chaapa chutti" and was quite "popular" during his time and then there was Syama Sastri. We all know who is remembered even after a couple of centuries..... ;-)
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