Topic started by IR_Fan (@ 202.88.154.169) on Tue Sep 25 09:41:42 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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Given below is a site created as a dedication to the carnatic caliber of ilaiyaraaja. Would like to have your comments. Let us discuss and talk about the carnatic wizardy of raja...
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Responses:
- Old responses
- From: Vel (@ ppp-219.65.119.193.chn.vsnl.net.in)
on: Thu Apr 8 12:57:06 EDT 2004
where do u listen from purv, all these songs?
- From: Vel (@ ppp-219.65.117.140.chn.vsnl.net.in)
on: Fri Apr 9 12:44:12 EDT 2004
"...'Thali Enbathinge' (Dhuruva Nakshathiram)-- Subhapanthuvarali (Bhavapriya)..."
purv, i happened to listen to the song...may indeed be bhavapriya...can u just give it another closer look again !!!
- From: purv (@ 198.38.6.253)
on: Mon Apr 12 10:53:14 EDT 2004
vel, there used to be this tremendous collection of songs in a site called tamiltune.com. But now, that site's out. Also, I hear some of these songs at tamilsongs.net. That site's still running. Pl. visit it.
- From: purv (@ 198.38.6.253)
on: Mon Apr 12 11:17:26 EDT 2004
Just one entry that I have a doubt about... 'Panivizhum Paruva Nilaa'. I don't think that it was in the film 'Isai Paadum Thendral', or that it was even by Ilayaraja! It is from the film 'Panneer Nathigal' by Shankar-Ganesh. However, the raaga is correct; the raaga is definitely Karaharapriya.
- From: MSK (@ desktop5.kyocera-wireless.com)
on: Mon Apr 12 21:34:47 EDT 2004
Purv, Vel,
Greetings,. I am looking for a couple of pointers here.. Any other song of Raja in Saramathi other than the Sindhu Bhairavi song.
I thought the Manasellam song " Ilaya nathi Iniya had slight shades of Saramathi .. I could be way off here.. so pls excuse my ignorance if so..
Also the song " Seevi sinukeduthu poova " from Vetri Vizha seems. Does this fall under any particular one.?
Thanks in advance.
Cheers
MSK
- From: MSK (@ desktop5.kyocera-wireless.com)
on: Mon Apr 12 21:44:24 EDT 2004
Oops .. Got one more.. I read somewhere that "Azhagaana Raatchasiye " from ARR's Mudhalvan is set to "Reethigowlai"... I am not sure .. could someone pls confirm this..
Thx
MSK
- From: Vel (@ 61.247.254.244)
on: Thu Apr 15 09:06:47 EDT 2004
MSK,
1) Manasellam song - definetly not saramathi...madhyamavathi (purv will vouch for sudhadhanyasi)
2) Seevi - may not follow any raga pattern..could be natabhairavi, at best
3) the third one is reethigowlai indeed
- From: arunnarayan (@ dialpool-210-214-16-185.maa.sify.net)
on: Fri Apr 16 14:34:52 EDT 2004
the song "Rakkamma kaiye thattu dont seem to be of raag Abheri as stated in the listing
- From: purv (@ 198.38.6.253)
on: Fri Apr 16 14:50:26 EDT 2004
Good forecast, Vel :-)))
- From: purv (@ 198.38.6.253)
on: Mon Apr 19 14:37:13 EDT 2004
I have made a few new discoveries today. The first two are from the obscure (unreleased?) 1993 flick Periyamma:
1. Mani Oonjal- Hamir Kalyani (similar to 'Kai Veenaiyai' in Vietnam Colony)
2. Ponmani Maadham- Abheri (Mano-KSC duet)
Also, I feel that 'Solla Cholla Enna Perumai' in Ellaam Inba Maayam is based on Hindolam raagam.
Hear the songs at smashits.com (you can find the full link if you go to tfmpage, dhool.com SOTD thread).
- From: Vel (@ 61.247.254.224)
on: Tue Apr 20 06:25:52 EDT 2004
purv,
Did u notice...the song "saami kitte solli vaichu" from aavaram poo is brilliantly composed in raga kapi.
Is this not a good example of tune's simplicity & the adept dilution of the raga by maestro fully camouflaging the neat presence of a carnatic raga.
"Vizhile mani vizhiyil mouna mozhi" song from nooraavadhu naal...that is another subtle usage of raga kaapi.
- From: purv (@ 198.38.6.253)
on: Tue Apr 20 13:10:35 EDT 2004
I thought of 'Saami Kitta' as Gowrimanohari. But you could be right. I know that G'Manohari and Kapi are similar.
Alright, I'll make that edition in my list.
- From: Vel (@ 210.212.240.17)
on: Thu Apr 22 06:15:22 EDT 2004
This write-up is for all beginners who are interested in figuring out carnatic ragams used in IR's songs...How about a small trip on kapi raga usage by IR, over a cup of kapi (sorry coffee)..
Kapi, as a raga, has a distinct flavour, that is very tough to miss...forget the swarams used...all u need is a pair of willing ears...just stay with me, as we take some beautiful numbers by IR in kapi...
I will start with an obscure song from an even more obscure film...it is sung by TMS and starts something like this..."Sirithal Sirippen Aval Oru Rajakumari.." from film Mariamman Thiruvizha...pick the lines next two lines after these first two lines...thats your first taste of kapi :-)
Then take the song "Thayum Naane Thanga Ila Maane" from the film Engeyo Kaeta Kural...the pallavi is pukka kapi flavour..ok, now pick up specifically the pallavi line "thalaatu paadum...vanna poondhene"...that is the kapi touch for u.. Same with "Sangathil Paadatha Kavigal" from Auto Raja...the pallavi is a good tutorial on kapi flavour.
Then another obscure song...titled "Sugamo Aayiram" from film Thunaiyiruppal Meenakshi...the last line of the charanams...adhai gettiya pudichikunga...
Now that u have made ur mind curious about kapi, slowly move on to more heavy ones...Repeatedly hear the following songs...
a) Ada Maapila Summa Moraikkadha - siva
b) Vizhiyile Mani Vizhiyil Mouna Mozhi - Nooraavadhu Naal (kapi or no kapi, this song is a masterpiece)
c) Hey Paadal Onru – Priya
d) Thanni Thotti from Sindhu Bhairavi...[in charanams,"oru raja dhesa maari yesa paaduraan..." and subsequent lines remaining in the charanams are the very essence of kapi...oh my, how very beautifull...]
Then move on to more subtle ones...inge kapi konjam light'aa irukkum ;-)...Based on my opinion, songs in this category would be....Chembaruthi Poovu - Chembaruthi, Chinna Chinna Malar Ondru - Kavalai Padathe Sagodhara, Kanne Kalaimaane - Moondram Pirai, Oranjaram Usharaiyya - Kakai Chiraginile (pallavi mattum...charanam'la IR mixes "Desh" )...
Avlo dhaan sir kaapi :-)
- From: Vel (@ ppp-219.65.119.39.chn.vsnl.net.in)
on: Sat Apr 24 13:24:31 EDT 2004
I am posting a message i had written in ilaiyaragam yahoo group about learning to detect carnatic ragas in film music....i have pasted it here..
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To all interested beginners,
There are tow options to learn how to detect ragas in film songs...
a) Take a list of "raga based film songs" (being raja fans, u can start here http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/index.html)...select a particular raga...e.g. Kapi...put all kapi raga songs as a list..record it as a cassette / CD...then listen to it regularly...if u recording shop guy has couple of kerthanai's in kaapi, u can add them to ur list too..it will give more understanding of the flavour of the raga...then LISTEN, LISTEN, LISTEN...and u will automatically LEARN
This second method may cost a bit...but its worth it, let me assure u...
b) Take a list of "raga based film songs"...Also download raga scale definitions (see http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/ragas.html or for a basic list http://www.geocities.com/ilaiyaragam/ragauniverse.htm) ...then u need to invest around Rs.1500 for a miniature casio keyboard...thats it..then just start playing the swaras of the ragas...simultaneously try playing film songs...this may take months..but u will soon be playing songs very well...and will as u play one raga scale or a song, another song will pop up in ur mind...bacause ur mind starts picking up related songs very easily...
To appreciate magical creations of ace composers (read raja) with a bit more conviction and especially if u r someone who loves to be defeated by the intellectual puzzles that IR poses with each of his songs, the above two methods are good proven ways to start and are adequate.
But obviously , if u r looking at hardcore learning (like u want to be a singer, musician, composer) then a guru is very much needed...
- From: purv (@ 198.38.6.253)
on: Tue Apr 27 16:03:00 EDT 2004
Hey guys! I found another Vijayanagari, which is more pure than 'Vanna Nilave' (doesn't include Ga3). The song is 'Kattaya Kaathal Vendum' in Thozhar Pandiyan. I heard the song at smashits.com. Another song I feel follows the Vijayanagari scale is 'Anba Sumanthu Sumanthu' in Ponnumani.
btw, the Ellam Inba Maayam song modulates into Sudhadhanyasi in the charanams. Just so you know.
regards,
purv
- From: purv (@ 198.38.6.253)
on: Wed Apr 28 11:36:43 EDT 2004
About Kapi, I would like to discuss the sad songs IR done in this raaga. I know of 5 so far:
1. Kanne Kalaimaane-- Moondram Pirai
2. Chinna Chinna Roja Poove-- Poovizhi Vaasalile
3. Chinna Thaayaval-- Dalapathi
4. Solli Solli Vanthathillai-- Sentamizh Paattu
5. Thanni Thotti-- Sindhu Bhairavi
- From: Vel (@ 210.212.240.19)
on: Thu Apr 29 07:00:52 EDT 2004
Puvr,
Tell me more about the usage in song 2 and 4. I am eager to know.
- From: purv (@ 198.38.6.253)
on: Thu Apr 29 16:54:26 EDT 2004
Vel, they're Kapi based. Listen to them, or look over their musical notation. You'll see what I mean. :-)
- From: rajeshrs_tvm (@ 202.88.237.51)
on: Fri Apr 30 02:01:45 EDT 2004
Vel
what u r doing is a great work.
really great.
- From: rajeshrs_tvm (@ 202.88.237.51)
on: Fri Apr 30 02:06:41 EDT 2004
what i meant was related to the post for beginners.
Vel i think we can reduce the cost to half if we go for a guitar instead of keyboard. :)
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