Topic started by Narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98) on Thu Mar 2 06:24:26 .
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This thread is to discuss about interesting Phrases/Patterns/ideas/references found in various krithis. |
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- From: K. Shyam (@ net245-175.its.yale.edu)
on: Thu May 4 21:14:38 EDT 2000
Vinayakuni is a kriti in Madhyamavati on Kamakshi ("Anaatharakshaki Sri Kamaakshi").
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp2633.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Thu May 4 22:02:32 EDT 2000
K.Shyam: Beg to differ with you but though the mudra Gopaladasa occurs in the kriti Vinayaka ninnuvina is one of those spurious songs composed by E.V.Ramakrishna Bhagavatar of Shenkottah.
Nado: By the way it is a kriti and not a gitam.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp45.buffnet.net)
on: Thu May 4 22:45:03 EDT 2000
Thanks Lakshman. Speaking of Hamsadhwanis, what is HamsaNaadam ? The BantuReeti Tyg. kriti comes to mind, but there must be other good ones.
- From: K. Shyam (@ net245-175.its.yale.edu)
on: Thu May 4 22:51:10 EDT 2000
Lakshman: Thanks for correcting me on this. I was listening to GNB's Vinayaka ninu vina when I saw Nadopasaka's post. So I looked up the CD label for the name of the composer and reported it. I apologize if I am wrong.
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Sat May 6 03:50:41 EDT 2000
nado,
the modern hamsanAdam does not have the
ShatShruthi dhaivatham that the older ones
had.
it is a rather masala hamsanAdam that is being
sung today.
vedavalli mami always used to ask:
"...thyagarAja ippudi compose panniruppArA??..neeyE
yosichi pAru...."
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.54.26.125)
on: Sat May 6 09:11:00 EDT 2000
nado:
i am not sure you know this piece of info about
the divine unison tape.(SSI/MSS)
the original recording had neither a tambura nor
any accompaniments!!!
all these were added later on.
it is amazing....these stalwarts have sung for nearly
2 hours(possible more in the actual concert), and
they have not strayed one bit from the shruthi!!
that is shruthi suddham for you!!!
this info was obtained from a posting by
sanjay subramaniam on his web site sangeetham.com
- From: Nadopasaka (@ abppp42.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Jun 13 12:27:00
In addition to the obvious Mohana in Mohana rama I can think of the raga name Kiravani ( obviously a coincidence ) in the Tyg. reetigowla, BaleBalendu. Even though he coined many new raga names they don't show up as mudras. Wonder if the Kalyani other usual names show up ? uh..oh.. well I just thought of Sama-nigamaja,Samaja-raaja also coincidences, don't count.
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.144.29.21)
on: Tue Jun 13 14:01:15 EDT 2000
nado:
in which krithi does the keeravani mudra come in thyagu's krithis?
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp4.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Jun 13 14:07:57 EDT 2000
Well its in BaleBalendu in Reetigowla in the second charana dure, keeravani, shri panchnadapura vihaarave (spiriHerit text of CRamjchri). As i said it is only a coincidence, most likely unintended, certainly not a 'mudra'. Just curious if any other names of ragas pop up elsewhere.
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.144.29.21)
on: Tue Jun 13 14:10:36 EDT 2000
does that suggest that maybe it was a keeravani piece originally?
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp11.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Jun 13 14:47:05 EDT 2000
:-)) no, most especially not. I think Tyg. had no care for raga mudras. If they do show up, it is purely coincidence. like the Sama, kirvani and Mohana. But he may have been aware of MD's methods. My question is if there other such examples of names, not mudras, appearing, not implying anything about the raaga.
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.140.149.17)
on: Tue Jun 13 15:25:10 EDT 2000
nado:
speaking of sama - i heard sanjay subramaniam sing shaantamuleka as the main piece in a concert and in a pre-recorded tape as well.
credit must be given to him for having conceived of a raaga picture of saama in a highly imaginative manner; with hardly any sense of repetition.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp20.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Jun 13 15:51:51 EDT 2000
Ravikiran, I understand SSub is a student of a Calcutta based vidwan. He may have access/or some idea of the AmbiDikshitar relatives. It is believed they 'decamped' to Calcutta ? many years ago and stashed MD's stuff in a safe ??
Ravikiran, It is not too clear to me why Sama ( not exactly a pentatonic ) is dubious for expanded treatment. But this is a fact and many ragas are indeed termed 'limited scope'. Many times Mohana has been used as a main piece (at least in the US) .
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.144.29.21)
on: Wed Jun 14 14:10:38 EDT 2000
nado:
mohanam is definitely not considered a rare choice for a main piece; many an artist has given it an elaborate treatment in concerts.
however, saama is certainly a rare selection.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp6.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Jun 14 14:38:08 EDT 2000
Thats right, Madhyamavati is another good example. What about Hamsadhwani ? Yadukula kamboji is also not much favored .
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.144.29.21)
on: Wed Jun 14 15:44:48 EDT 2000
nado:
i have heard SSI sing yadukula kambhoji as the main piece. he used to sing it a lot.
recently, i heard rudrapatnam brothers sing a RTP in Yadukula kambhoji
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp27.buffnet.net)
on: Wed Jun 14 16:16:15 EDT 2000
SSI seems to have a very good idea of YadKam. I heard an absolutely spectacular Diwakaram of his, a classic, dripping with nasal 'kalaanjan, nimagna, janaanaam etc. The violin was TNK ( i think), equally superb. Probably a real old piece. Not too many others, though.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp19.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Jul 7 02:23:08 EDT 2000
Both MD and Tyg. use the phrase 'mula prakriti svabhava' in Sri Mahaganapatiravatuma (Gowla)and Tanalone Dhyana (devagandhari) respctly. Both krities follow this statement with a numerical reference. (ravi sahasra and laksha lakshaantara )
- From: S (@ wwwgate2.motorola.com)
on: Fri Jul 7 04:11:22 EDT 2000
MDR was another artiste whose Yadukulakambhoji was a gem, and has rendered many a piece. SSI, MDR and GNB have sung Etavunanerchitivo in their own great styles. Semmangudi has also rendered Parthasaarathi ( Chengalvaraaya Sastri ) as a major item. He also renders Maalariyaa ( Thiruvempavai tuned by him ) and bhujagasayino ( Swati mangalam kriti )
- From: RAM (@ 149.123.110.57)
on: Fri Jul 7 08:22:48 EDT 2000
To Nasdopasaka
How about "Kalyana Rama" by Uttukkadu Venkatasubba Ayyar in Hamsanadham?
RAM
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp70.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Jul 7 10:29:13 EDT 2000
GNB , indeed, has his own Yadukula Kamboji kriti as well=ParamakripaSagari, which does not seem to be sung now by many outside his sishya line.
Ram, I am aware of this kriti and also one by Papanaasam. Haven't heard them lately. TNS may indulge in a Hamsanadam by HMB every so often.
- From: Rajani (@ 202.151.212.183)
on: Sat Jul 15 20:59:23 EDT 2000
Re Keeravani, it means "one whose talk is sweet as a parrot's" and so can be used as an adjective for Devi in a Kriti of any Raga
I think "Mula prakriti svabhava" is used for Ganesha by both ST and MD as Ganesha is the lord of the "Muladhara chakram"
- From: Nadopasaka (@ abppp9.buffnet.net)
on: Sat Jul 15 21:28:48 EDT 2000
Rajani, which ST ( = swati Tirunal ?? ) kriti uses this 'Mula Prakriti' ?? . Note that the Tyg. kriti Tanalone is, as usual, to Raama.
- From: Rajani (@ 202.151.212.3)
on: Tue Jul 18 01:19:14 EDT 2000
Oops sorry!
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp21.buffnet.net)
on: Sat Jul 29 23:18:40
What is the meaning/implication of 'NaariYoniMukhaaSvaadane' in MD's UcchistaGanapatau ?
- From: Ramaprasad (@ 204.154.176.49)
on: Mon Jul 31 13:41:40 EDT 2000
I guess this is some tantric aspect of worship
-Ramaprasad
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp7.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Jul 31 14:30:34 EDT 2000
KVR, some interesting meanings may be derived from Yoni, perhaps as womb etc. svaadane may also be 'tasting'. The ganapati is not formally the issue of the womb. Unsure what all this means or how it fits together.
I find a 'ChiruNavvu' pharse used in two important varnams, Viriboni (PachimiriamA ) and also Vanajakshiro (ManambuchavadiVI). This ChiruNavvu idea is used also in the Tyagaraja Kovur Arabhi ( second charana ).
- From: Nadopasaka (@ afppp32.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Aug 7 11:43:59 EDT 2000
The SyamaSastri Naata actually uses the word 'svarajati' ! In this context both MD and Tyagaraja cite 'saptaswara matrja/matrka 'in 'Sandhya devi' and 'samaja vara gamana' respectively. Of course, the more direct reference to 'saptaswara' occurs in Shobhillu-jaganmohini, appropriately along with the 'gayatri', which may have seven types. ( sapta-ashwara with the seven horse motif appears in the Saurastram ( probably more related to the sun-temples seven horses etc )) saurastram is Suryakantam janya for MD so the Suryamurte choice is apt.
MD's usage in a Devakriya kriti is odd, especially if Devakriya takes only five notes, under some styles being equal to shuddha saveri ?.
- From: sg (@ )
on: Tue Apr 13 02:49:08
Can someone give me the chittaswaram of "Vinayaka Ninnu Vina Brochutaku" ??Thanks !
- From: Dr.Shrikaanth K. Murthy (@ acbee915.ipt.aol.com)
on: Tue Apr 13 20:29:30 EDT 2004
Hi guys
too bad I missed this thread earlier. But never mind, I shall conttribute my mite
Nado , most of what I write wil be related to your earlier postings.
1] reference to removal of illnesses;-"hatyAdipApaharam" is not so far-fetched. It refers to the episod where rAma worships Siva at 3 places to get rid of brahmahatyAdOSa owing to the killing of rAvaNa who was also a brAhmaa. The first was in rAmESvaram[ sic-rAmanAtham], next in tiruvAnaikkA and finally in rAmanAthapura in hassan dt., kArnataka where he gets rid of the pApaSESa from brahmahatyA. the 2nd & 3rd places are both on the banks of the kAveri.
Other references to removal of diseases "kuSHTharOgApaha" in kASiviSvESvara in kAmbOdhi and "carAtmaka sarvarOgahara" in shahana navAvraNa.Im sure there are more[perhaps i krtis on vaidEsvarankoil? ]
2]As regards swarAkSara prayogas . There are many in dIkSitar krtis . Oe which springs to my mind apart from others mentioned is "ramAvANI sakhI2 in SrIrAga mangala kriti of navAvaraNa series. "ramAvANI" is sung on "rimApAnI". Also mAmava mInAkSi in varAli starts on the varALi madhyama. also "kamanIya radanAm" & sarvASAparipUraka in kalyani navAvaraNa are rendered respectvely as "gamanI" and "sApAsApari"(2d pa in mandra sthAyi)
3]as for the begade kriti "tyAgarAjAya namastE", there is no nArada i the kriti carana begins as " mukundAdi pUjita sOmAskandha mUrtaye". It cannot be explained as a pAThAntara as nArada[!!! in sahitya] would destroy the pRasa
4]reference to SrIpurandaradAsaru in MD krtis . As mentioned by somenone els, there is ample reference to purandara in MD krtis. But purandara also means indra in samskrit andin some kritis as"purandarAdi dikpAla2 in vaAli can only be taken to mean indra. But I am inclined to think that in many of the other places , he is referring with reverence t dAsaru given the fact that he has closely followed the latter`s footsteps right from the start {SrInAthAdi}
5]grahabheda- MD has composed grahasvaras for a few of his krtis [ I cat recall which but they are given in SSP] wherein citteswara is sung as such after anupallavi but , following the carana Shadja is shifeted to anothe swara. In effect , it is like singing swarasAhitya in SS krti or padavarNa but here the sAhityAkSara is the new swara resulting in the sounding of a new rAga.jUst for info, I have also made a similar prayOga in one of my compositions.
6]"nAriyOnimukhAsvAdanE" in th kAmavardhini/ rAmakriya krti, it indeed refers to tantrik forms. This song is clearly in praise of and contains a detailed description of ucchista ganapati. one of the classic SodaSaganapati forms in iconlogy. You can find further details in the encyclopaedia of indian iconology by sagItakalAratna S.K..Ramachandrarao- a reputed musicologist, samskrita vidwAmsa &many other good things. The picture of this form of ganapati shows him indulging in sexual activity with his consort wherein he is lovingly embracing her and his trunk is close to her nether regions, lovingly taking in the fragrance.
Hope this was useful sorry for the lengthy posting. One humblr suggestion to all who post, please pay attention to sAhitya and the way it is pronounced/spelt. E.g purandar has been writte as puranthara[ this is not a tamil krti and is not pronounced so even in tamil
- From: Dr.Shrikaanth K. Murthy (@ acb9c258.ipt.aol.com)
on: Wed Apr 14 14:16:51 EDT 2004
hi
excuse the typing errors. it should be prAsa and purandara . I havent correctected all of them as they will be obvious cheers
- From: Manju (@ ppp-96.blr.eth.net)
on: Thu Apr 29 13:41:03 EDT 2004
Hi Nado
Muthuswami Dixitar is well known to bringing the raga name in his compositions beautifully n so naturally.
Usually such usages bring the name of the raga as well as gives it a significance in the context of the lyric also. But herez a unique usage.
In his ragamalika kriti "shree vishwanatham bhajeham", which begins with raga Shree, therez a stanza for raga Arabhi. It goes like this:
"Shritha jana samsArabheethyaapaham..." Look at the way the name of the raga is brought! "samsARABHEEthyaapaham" This phrase just means one who resolves the worldly miseries, i.e., samsara bheethi. There is no reference to mean Raga Arabhi whatsoever. But still, the name of the raga is so beautifully hidden between two different words which together mean something else!
Just a curious observation..... cheers.
Manju
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