A question from a novice...

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A question from a novice... A question from a novice...

Topic started by Srini (@ tide79.microsoft.com) on Wed Apr 19 21:07:35 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.

I have a couple of questions regarding arohanam / avarohanam and would appreciate any replies. I understand that any given ragam has a particular ar/av (I remember reading in one of the threads here that there might be more than one ar/av for a given ragam - I don't want to get dragged into that!). Further, the swaras found in the arohanam
are to be used while 'going up the scale' and those in the avarohanam are to be used while
'coming down'. What I am not able to figure out is whether this is a compile time or a run time effort. I am almost certain that both are involved. However, I find it extremely hard to comprehend how an artiste keeps track of these swarams as he/she sings extemporaneously. I guess my question sould be - does the artiste make a concious effort to use only certain swaras while 'going up'/'coming down'? That would be a helluva lot of processing for a human brain (at
least for mine!). I like to think that once an artiste knows the swaroopam of a particular ragam, he/she does not need to make any concious effort to remember the swarams in the ar/av...

Responses:

From: IR (@ dialup-209.244.123.249.boston1.level3.net) on: Thu Apr 20 07:47:30 EDT 2000

Srini: To put it simply, it is something similar to this exercise... when you first start off learning words and the alphabets that make up a word as a kid, you struggle... but as you grow up, you dont even stop to think about the spelling of a word, you just write it unconsiously...

>>I like to think that once an artiste knows the swaroopam of a particular ragam<<< when you say swaroopam, it goes without saying that the artiste knows exactly what combination of swarams make up that swaroopam and when you hear and sing more, it comes to you naturally without any "special" efforts/brain crunching :)

But when 2 ragas could sound similar except for a few sancharas that distinguish them, the artiste is careful about not mixing up the 2 ragas :)(Eg Dharbar and Naayaki)

Hope this helps a little :)
From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp22.buffnet.net) on: Thu Apr 20 08:09:39 EDT 2000

Computer programmers and software developers, especially, are constantly amazed at the processing that the human brain can do, and the comparatively puny organizational skills of so-called thinking machines. Certainly a swara prastaram or swara exposition (either breaking down a raaga or fleshing it out ) by SemmangudiSI, for example, can be an intimidating and awe-inspiring experience even for those who are not novices. But as IR points out, there is enormous practice of many decades, so that swara gyanam becomes a reflex, like breathing or blinking your eyes.

What is amazing is that even generally untrained ears can pick up Apashrutis or even near-apashrutis ( almost like a tangible blemish on a sculpture as it is constructed in your presence ). The SrutiBehdam ( IR :-)) ) raga shift relies on such fine tuning. The raga form, when handled well, is unique and true. Apashruti or the evil of discordance ( the equivalent of untruth ) is universally recognizable. Of course, it must be remembered that intoning swara patterns is only one analytical exercise and is by no means the totality of the art or measure of the artiste.
From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98) on: Thu Apr 20 08:32:16 EDT 2000

The artist does not have to bother about the Aro/Ava as long as he is aware of the scope of the raga. The karpana swara is the reflection of the raga bhavam that the artist is aware of and decoding it into the equivalent swara is just a medium of deliery where the early paataanthram of various varisais (chittai, jhandai etc) come in handy.

Regarding differenciating Darbar/Nayaki
Arabhi/Devagandhari etc the person would be well of if he does not know the actual difference. If he gets to know the difference, he would spend more time in trying to avoid going anywhere near the "no fly" zone thereby losing concentration.
From: IR (@ dialup-63.210.154.205.boston1.level3.net) on: Thu Apr 20 09:03:05 EDT 2000

>>>>he would spend more time in trying to avoid going anywhere near the "no fly" zone thereby losing
concentration.<<<< :::::))))) Narayanan...

But, I still think you need to know the differences when you handle these ragas - for your own sake and to deliver a "clean" raga delineation..... ::::))) This is IMO your honour ::)))
From: narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98) on: Thu Apr 20 09:20:53 EDT 2000

IR:
>>But, I still think you need to know the differences when you handle these ragas - for your own sake and to deliver a "clean" raga delineation<<
I do agree with you to some extent but...
one gets an idea about the Raga by learning more krithis on that raga. IMHO, you dont have to worry about similar or close ragas when you are sure about the raga you are performing. :-)))
Objection sustained :-))))))
From: IR (@ dialup-63.210.154.205.boston1.level3.net) on: Thu Apr 20 09:50:23 EDT 2000

:::::)))))))) Narayanan
From: Ramji (@ 205.177.170.125) on: Thu Apr 20 13:28:52 EDT 2000

As a listener for several years, with hardly any valid claim to theoritical knowledge, I can vouch for the point made by our knowledgeable friends here. To a listener like me, the ears get tuned to identify and differentiate ragas. I would guess, the same way, for a singer, the inner ears get tuned and in turn guide the singer.

" One has reached the ultimate levels of creativity when one has mastered skill so thoroughly that it can be forgotten..." - Tao
From: Srini (@ tide76.microsoft.com) on: Thu Apr 20 19:19:20 EDT 2000

Thanks a lot everyone for the responses!

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