Topic started by supa (@ adsl-63-205-66-217.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) on Fri Jul 18 16:54:50 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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can anyone tell me who wrote the beautiful ragamalika "Sri Chakra raja Simhasaneswari".
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Responses:
- From: meena (@ user-1121csv.dsl.mindspring.com)
on: Fri Jul 18 17:25:28 EDT 2003
supa,
composer:Agastyar
- From: Idiappam (@ cache139.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Fri Jul 18 17:51:34 EDT 2003
Agastiyar - of which era?
- From: meena (@ user-1121efj.dsl.mindspring.com)
on: Fri Jul 18 20:47:40 EDT 2003
about Agastyar-
http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/co1009.html
http://murugan.org/bhaktas/agastyar.htm
- From: Idiappam (@ cache139.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Fri Jul 18 21:53:58 EDT 2003
Ok, Ma'am!
But Agastiyar is just a legend. He did not exist. See:
http://www.kuviyam.com/b001r10/articles.htm#article7
The have been claims that many works are by him - from religion, music, medicine but actually written by anonymous persons or persons having the same name - from the first millenia to the 19th century - eg: Agathiyar KunavAgadam - a book on medicine written very late in the 19th century.
Tholkapiam (Tamil Grammer) by tholkapiar was written 500BC. The Tamil Language then showd no signs of Sanskrit influence - but Tholkappiar has drawn some rules for proper Tamilization of foreign words which he calls - vadasol, thisaisol. Tholkappiar did not mention anywhere in his work of Agathiyar - this Kaapu - is a tradition amongst poets, to write a verse about thier guru. Tholkapiar did not! The Agathiyar legend is created later by Sanskritists as a propaganda to give Tamil a Sanskrit origin!
As far as the Song 'Sri Charkra' is concerned - the Language is in 'manipravAla' Tamil - meaning Tamil with heavy (more than 50%, sometimes 80%) Sanksrit words, but retaining the Tamil structure and grammer. This form of Tamil came into use in literary circles in the late 15th Century.
ManipraVala Tamil can be seen in Thirupugazh (15th century) occasionally - as in 'NAdavindu kalAthi namOnama'. The author, Arunagirinathar seem to be in agile in switching to pure Tamil verses - as in 'allivizhiyAlum mullai nagaiyAlum', you can here it sung by Chinmaya Sisters set to Maand ragam.
So, Ma'am, I am of the opinion that the Agathiyar who wrote 'Sri Chakra' in manipravAla Tamil cannot be ealier that 15th century. But can be safely place slightly before of after Thiyagaiyar - that's when carnatic singing was at its peak and more compositions - anoymous were written.
But anyway, Ma'am, this is about Music - lyrics, melody etc. Not about its history, I guess. So we can leave it there! Thank you!
- From: supa (@ adsl-63-205-66-217.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
on: Sat Jul 19 00:42:45 EDT 2003
i agree with idiappam. the tamil used in sri chakra can certainly not be that of legendary agattiar. this seems to be a composition of 18th or 19th century, like uthukadu venkatakavi and others. it can even be by the later composers likepapanasam sivan, suddhananda bharati etc. i am not sure whether there was a later composer of the same name as the original agattiar.
- From: meena (@ user-1121djd.dsl.mindspring.com)
on: Sat Jul 19 01:37:28 EDT 2003
supa,
u wanted to know who the composer was!
http://www.geocities.com/promiserani2/co1009.html
- From: Nice Chap (@ dial81-131-197-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
on: Sun Jul 20 04:36:26 EDT 2003
Please forgive my ingnorance - I was always under the impression that Maharajapuram Santhanam composed it !!
- From: Nice Chap (@ dial81-131-197-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
on: Sun Jul 20 04:37:28 EDT 2003
Please forgive my ignorance - I was always under the impression that Maharajapuram Santhanam composed it !!
- From: Idiappam (@ cache139.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Jul 20 07:56:53 EDT 2003
That's a possiblity, nice chap!
I also note that Agastiyar has no other compositions but this Sri Charkra - quite impossible that a composer would have one song only.
- From: supa (@ adsl-63-205-66-217.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net)
on: Sun Jul 20 12:06:00 EDT 2003
i agree, idiappam. i think agastiar might be a pseudonym of i dont know who. maharajapuram santhanam's name is also mentioned in some cassettes as the composer, but his mudra "maharajan" is not seen in this song.
- From: Idiappam (@ cache139.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Sun Jul 20 13:03:50 EDT 2003
supa,
one response from another site says the composer is Pudhukottai Santhanandha Swamy could also be know as Agastiyar.
http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00AP2t
It is certain that the Agasthiar that that is quoted by Madam Meena is this person, but the site she qoutes just talks of the legendry, non existent Agasthiyar of pre-tholkappian time!
- From: Nice Chap (@ dial81-135-120-252.in-addr.btopenworld.com)
on: Sun Jul 20 15:58:44 EDT 2003
Other possibility is Agasthiyar wrote it and Sri Maharajapuram Santhanam composed the music for it.
- From: Lakshman (@ kit-nas9-34.158.porchlight.ca)
on: Mon Jul 21 18:05:34 EDT 2003
>I also note that Agastiyar has no other compositions but this Sri Charkra - quite impossible that a composer would have one <
It is quite possible that one can compose a single song and that song can become popular. An example is shrngAra lahari in nIlAmbari by Lingaraj Urs. This is his single composition.
Also, though many people claim that Pachimiriam Adiappaiah composed other pieces, none have been revealed so far and the popular varNa vIribONi in bhairavi seems to be his only composition.
- From: Idiappam (@ cache139.156ce.maxonline.com.sg)
on: Tue Jul 22 16:03:06 EDT 2003
Ok, Lakshman. On second thought yep, some can compose a one off.
Any idea, who this Agathiyar could be?
- From: Rajan (@ )
on: Tue Aug 31 02:03:38
Hi,
Where can I get the lyrics for the song "Sri Chakra.."
Thanks,
Rajan.
- From: Lakshman (@ kit-ppp-64.187.33.71.porchlight.ca)
on: Tue Aug 31 07:49:13 EDT 2004
shrI cakrarAja. rAgamAlikA. Adi tALA. Composer: Agastyar
pallavi: shrI cakrarAja simhAsanEshvari shrI lalitAmbikE bhuvanEshvari (shrI)
anupallavi: Agama vEda kalAmaya rUpiNi akhila carAcara janani nArAyaNi
nAga kankaNa naTarAja manOhari jnAna vidyEshvari rAjarAjEshvari (shrI)
nAdanAmakriyA
carNam 1: palavidamAi unnai pADavum Adavum pADi koNDADum anbar padamalar shUDavum
ulagam muzhudum ena tagamurakkANavum oru nilai taruvAi kanchi kAmEshvari (shrI)
punnAgavarALi
caraNam 2: uzhanru tirinda ennai uttamanAgi vaittAi uyariya periyOruDan onriDakkUTTi vaittAi
nizhalenat toDarnda munnUzhk koDumaiyai nInga sheidAi nityakalyANi bhavAni padmEshvari (shrI)
sindhubhairavi
caraNam 3: tunbappuDatiiliTTut tuyavanAkki vaittAi toDarnda mun mAyam nIkki piranda payanai tandAi
anbai pugaTTi undan Adalaik kANa sheidAi aDaikkalam nIyE amma akhilANDEshvari (shrI)
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