Topic started by Harish (@ 196.12.186.89) on Sun Apr 30 03:22:39 .
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Responses:
- From: Rohan Krishnamurthy (@ pm533-02.dialip.mich.net)
on: Sun Apr 30 10:29:49 EDT 2000
Dear Harish,
I am an ardent lover of Chembai's music. Being a 12-year old mridangist who learns from Sri. Guruvayur Dorai, I have a soft spot for this great soul, since it was this one man who brought up so many mridangist like the Mani Iyer, Subramanium Pillai, Murghabhoopathy, Guruvayur Dorai, etc.
Keep in touch.
- From: kartik (@ 203.197.56.146)
on: Wed May 3 03:42:30 EDT 2000
Palaghat Mani Iyer just cannot stop praising Chembai for his big boming voice as opposed to "those modern singers whose voices have been corrupted by the mike ".Always interesting to note Sri Mani Iyer's thoughts on the mike .Wonder if you folks agree
TVG also praises him for having a lot of patience with accompanying artists.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp14.buffnet.net)
on: Wed May 3 12:11:32 EDT 2000
Who are the 'sishyas'( big-name or no-name ) of ChembaiVB ? I heard KJY may have been one for while.
- From: Rohan Krishnamurthy (@ pm538-23.dialip.mich.net)
on: Wed May 3 15:29:11 EDT 2000
Yesudas was a student of Chembai, nut other than that, I only know of one, Thiruphuggazh Raghanavan, as he is commonly known. I played for him, actually. Though I did not know his name before I played for him, I called Dorai Sir, my guru, and told him I am playing for Raghuvan. He was very happy and gave me all his blessings.
- From: haris (@ inet-fw1-o.oracle.com)
on: Wed May 3 20:47:15 EDT 2000
KJY, TVG and jaya-vijaya brothers are sishyAs of chembai.. jaya-vijaya - i think didnt' make their names in carnatic - but they have done some devotional..
- From: Harish (@ 196.12.186.78)
on: Thu Jun 1 10:42:39 EDT 2000
Gurusmarana is the best Carnatic casette I've listened to so far - sung by Chembai and Yesudas, simply magnificent!!! Tell me your views, folks.
- From: Vasu (@ s06.austin.ibm.com)
on: Thu Jun 1 13:20:10 EDT 2000
Recently bought a CD of Chembai (with vocal support by Jaya-Vijaya). It was really good. The audio quality is good enough except for 3-4 songs, which were from 1940s. Some of them kritis are live I think. There are about 14-15 items in it. Its got a few Lalithadasar kritis (Ennil Kanintha in Shankarabharanam and Inga daya rada in Chakravakam by Ramaswami Dikshitar are two great pieces). Will post details if reqd, let me know.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp41.buffnet.net)
on: Thu Jun 1 13:27:38 EDT 2000
The RD kriti may itself justify the purchase. Is it Chakravakam or Vegavahini ?
- From: Vasu (@ s06.austin.ibm.com)
on: Thu Jun 1 13:56:13 EDT 2000
I know Vegavahini is close to Chakravakam, but if you go by CD cover, it says its Chakravakam. Is the original composition in Vegavahini? Chembai has dealt the raga in detail (alapana, kalpanaswara). There is also a beautiful Dhanyasi by Lalithadasar, forgot the lyrics, will post later.
- From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38820.sympatico.ca)
on: Thu Jun 1 15:40:37 EDT 2000
Vasu:
It must be either Nannu lalimpa ravamma lalitamma or Evariki telusunamma ni lilanu. Both are by Lalitadasar in Dhanyasi.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aippp33.buffnet.net)
on: Thu Jun 1 15:55:14 EDT 2000
The Dikshitars seem scrupulous about the Asampurna mela paddhati even 200 years after the fact. I dont believe there is a Subbarama or Ambi D. kriti in Kharaharapriya ( I may be wrong ) . But Chakravaka (sampurna mela) might be as old a raga as this Vegavahini.
- From: Ramaprasad (@ 204.154.176.49)
on: Thu Jun 1 16:31:59 EDT 2000
I don't think so. RD's composition is in
Vegavahini. Chakravaka probably took off with
Tyagaraja's eTula brOtuvo and other kritis.
- Ramaprasad K V
- From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp9.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Jun 2 00:33:07 EDT 2000
Vasu, Chembai has a book (circa 1950)on Lalitadasas krities.
There is a Tyagaraja kriti in Vegavahini = ChallagaNaato ( in addition to the unrelated SimhaVahini=Nenarunchara and TivraVahini=Sarijesi ) and his 2 well known Chakravakas.
The existence of a composition in a raaga may or may not indicate the age of a raaga. For example Okapari Kokapari of Annamacharya (who libed several hundred years before Tyagaraja ) is now rendered in Kharaharapriya ( quite possibly a retune )! However Smarane Vande of PDasa in Malayamarutham ( which misses the 'ma' of Chakravakam and the vakra features of Vegavahini ) may be genuine. The Vegavahini vakra feature does not lend itself readily as a mela for 'janya' raagas such as Malayamarutham. As a result no kriti exists by the Dikshitars in this fine raaga.
Chakravaka is the murchana result of shifts on Sarasangi and Dharmavati which are no great help either in its age determination. But the same shifts can also be applied to Vegavahini, probably were by Venkitamakhi. It is also true that the name Toya had to be added to Vegavahini, probably by Venkitamakhi, as part of the asampurna 72 mela katapayadi scheme.
Perhaps Lakshman can give some examples of authentic krities in Vegavahini and Chakravaka from before RamaswamyD and Tyagarajas time. The Hindustani raaga Ahir Bhairav is believed to be related to Chakravaka and both Ahiri and Bhairav may be as old as the hills.
To the ThreadMaster: Since these last few posts have little to do with Chembai, they are probably better off moved to one of the other threads. Thanks.
- From: S (@ wwwgate2.motorola.com)
on: Fri Jun 2 04:21:17 EDT 2000
>>>( quite possibly a retune )! However Smarane Vande of PDasa in
Malayamarutham ( which misses the 'ma' of Chakravakam and the vakra features of Vegavahini )
may be genuine.<<<
Nado, the presently popular tune of smaraNE ondE sAladE in malayamArutam ( Adi tALam ) is also a retune IMHO. Also, MLV used to sing this in a different varnamettu in malayamArutam in roopaka talam. One version I have heard of this song is in aThANA in misra chApu.
MDR has rendered the RD composition beautifully.
- From: Ravi Kiran (@ 202.144.29.21)
on: Fri Jun 2 05:27:00 EDT 2000
nado:
re : >>> The Vegavahini vakra feature does not lend itself readily as a mela for 'janya' raagas such as Malayamarutham. As a result no kriti exists by the Dikshitars in this fine raaga.>>>
does this mean that there are no MD krithis in malayamaarutham?
btw, SSI sings gajaananayutham with a sampurna aro/avaro(chakravaakam).
- From: S (@ wwwgate31.motorola.com)
on: Fri Jun 2 07:17:03 EDT 2000
>>>does this mean that there are no MD krithis in malayamaarutham?<<< There r no MD kritis in malayamaarutam known until now ( by std books of MD's works )
>>>btw, SSI sings gajaananayutham with a sampurna aro/avaro<<< Yes. Pls also see related post in the MD thread.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ adppp19.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Jun 2 09:26:53 EDT 2000
S, I surmised that the PDasa MMrutam was probably authentic. If the Athana you heard was not by BMK, then this is not a good example.
RaviKiran, I am unaware of MMrutam by MD. SSI's rendering may be a 20th century development. What does the SSP (SangitaSampradayaPradarshini ) say about this kriti ? I cannot recollect other lineages singing Gajananayutam. Perhaps Narayanan, who is familiar with the DKP and Ambi Dikshitar school can comment.
As for murchanas of Vegavahini, the resultant ragas Dhammavati ( = Dharmavati ) and Saurasena ( = Sarasangi ) are not known to be asampurna. MD has krities in both of these.
- From: narayanan (@ dyn118-ras21.screaming.net)
on: Fri Jun 2 17:22:41 EDT 2000
Guys:
Any ideas about why Chembai sings MD's "Mahishasura Mardhini" in Bilahari and not in Narayani ?
- From: S (@ wwwgate2.motorola.com)
on: Sat Jun 3 04:33:15 EDT 2000
>>>Any ideas about why Chembai sings MD's "Mahishasura Mardhini" in Bilahari and not in Narayani ?<<<
mahis'AsuramarddinIm has the rAga mudra as kAtyAyanIm-*nArAyaNIm* as its last words. Probably , this narayani which is a janyam of 29 ( unlike the narayani in which tyagaraja's ramaneeve and bhajanaseya are set - janyam of 28 ) metamorphised to bilahari some time by some school, and Chembai followed the bilahari version.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aeppp25.buffnet.net)
on: Sat Jun 3 10:17:09 EDT 2000
S, Narayanan ! There is also an MD kriti in a raaga Narayana-Desakshi (ND). A raag Desakshi also exists which is almost identical to Bilahari. ND is a j29.
- From: r sriram (@ pg8proxy.pg.com)
on: Tue Jun 27 04:16:30 EDT 2000
There is a good album of him in Malayalam which was released by Jesudas
- From: Harish (@ 203.197.146.60)
on: Thu Aug 10 22:03:26 EDT 2000
Hi Guys,
Do any of you have Gurusmarana Vol3
- From: Harish (@ 202.56.192.158)
on: Sat Nov 11 09:05:53 EST 2000
Hello!
I am an ardent fan of Chembai and his sishya Yesudas. Both are truly 'Out of the world singers'.
Visit my page at http://members.rediff.com/srkris
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