Topic started by Nadopasaka (@ aappp11.buffnet.net) on Sun Mar 5 16:25:54 .
All times in EST +10:30 for IST.
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It is often said that if you tie the hands of an Italian, you can get him to stop talking ! Will a Carnatic vocalist be similarly affected ?
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Responses:
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp46.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 6 23:19:13 EST 2000
Are there krities that are set in more than one talam ?
In Ragamalikas, is there typically only one talam ? The 108 mela monstrosity of Ramaswami D. seems to have been called a ragatalamalika.
Thanks
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp31.buffnet.net)
on: Thu Mar 9 12:08:24 EST 2000
That first question above is slightly different from this one:
Can a kriti be sung in two different talams ? ( if ragas can be changed what is the sanctity of the talam anyway ) Q. is if the raga remains the same what is the effect ?
- From: Narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Fri Mar 10 04:59:27 EST 2000
In the krithi "Natavara Tharuni" by Oothukkadu -Kannada Gowlai , the pallavi and anupallavi are set in Adi - Tisra Nadai and the Charanam is in Adi - Chatursra Nadai
I dont now if this one qualifies.
- From: Lakshman (@ hse-kit-ppp38820.sympatico.ca)
on: Fri Mar 10 09:43:57 EST 2000
Papanasham Shivan's Edadu padam tukki/Khamas has, I hink, the charana in tisra nadai.
- From: Isai rasigai (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Fri Mar 10 09:53:18 EST 2000
"">>Are there krities that are set in more than one talam ? ""
I think the answer to that question is NO. There are Krithis that change nadais like Narayanan and Lakshman pointed out but not the thaalam itself. saagara sayana (Bhageshri - chathusra and thisra nadai are used)
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aippp15.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Mar 10 10:01:53 EST 2000
Thanks, any ideas on how the violinists and flautists keep time ?
- From: Isai Rasigai (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Fri Mar 10 10:03:46 EST 2000
nado - elaborate on "keep time"
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp29.buffnet.net)
on: Fri Mar 10 10:48:34 EST 2000
IsaiRasigai, I admit it is a poor choice of word.
I meant it in connection with the hand thumping vocalists use , typically with the right hand on the right thigh ( maybe some count using fingers etc. ) , even as the left hand gesticulates, beckoning and summoning the great musical spirits.
- From: Lakshman (@ ppp7780.on.bellglobal.com)
on: Fri Mar 10 11:00:32 EST 2000
Nadopasaka:
I think the instumentalists keep track of time by listening to the mridangam beats and also by glancing at the singer/audience who are counting time. But some singers don't keep the tala.
- From: Nadopasaka (@ afppp21.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 20 11:52:51 EST 2000
Is use of the 'brigha' during a kriti rendition related to talam of the kriti ?
It seems relatively difficult to tamper ( e.g. deface using different ragas etc. ) with SyamaSastri's krities because of their intricate construction with regard to talam ( so too for MD, more due to language probably ) . What are some of the so-called disputed krities of SyamaSastri if any ?
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp19.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 06:35:51 EST 2000
Are there any 'thillanas' by SyamaSastri ?
- From: IR (@ dialup-63.210.132.193.boston1.level3.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 07:27:23 EST 2000
>>"Is use of the 'brigha' during a kriti rendition related to talam of the kriti ? "<<< - yes, brigha within a krithi needs to be within the thala limits.... (between pallavi and anupallavi for example - you could take as many aavarthanams to complete your "brighas"!!!!)
In raga aalapana, there are no thala restrictions and a free flow of brighas is allowed :)
- From: Nadopasaka (@ akppp19.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 07:30:34 EST 2000
Thanks Isrgi, Is there an equivalent for 'brikha' in instrumentalists ?
- From: IR (@ dialup-209.244.123.63.boston1.level3.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 08:36:49 EST 2000
"spuritham" in veena could be considered as one... it is possible to reproduce most of the vocal "brighas" in veena - but for some reason, I believe brigha is more associated with vocal than instrumental music - may be I am wrong in assuming so :)
- From: Narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Mon Mar 27 08:44:21 EST 2000
IR:
May be you are right. I havent seen anybody calling a "brika" like sangathi from an instrumentalist as a "brika". ::))
- From: Diwakar (@ 206.175.177.136)
on: Mon Mar 27 14:42:48 EST 2000
What's in a name? A briga by an instrumentalist is just as fast? :-)
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp33.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 14:53:21 EST 2000
Maybe faster, especially with flute (Narayanan ?)
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Mon Mar 27 15:31:25 EST 2000
brikka's in both vocal and instrumental could be as fast as one another and equally complicated :)
Nado: our TNS could probably be able to sing any kind of brigga :)
- From: Nadopasaka (@ aappp30.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 15:41:34 EST 2000
Including the 'nameless' ones, no doubt !!
- From: Nadopasaka (@ ahppp24.buffnet.net)
on: Mon Mar 27 19:23:55 EST 2000
Isrgi wrote >> "spuritham" in veena could be considered as one <<<
There is a gamaka type defined as 'sphuritam' in addition to others such as 'pratyaahata' , andholita etc. Wonder if this is the same ?
- From: nick haynes (@ 194.131.98.221)
on: Tue Mar 28 07:18:16 EST 2000
I am often trying to work out what is going on tala-wise and have noticed:
1. violinists etc often mark the claps with a toe or foot.
2. singers often only mark the beats they feel like marking, generally waving the hands about the rest of the time.
3. young students and inexperienced singers can be inaccurate or completely wrong with putting tala.
and 4... how I envy those who just know where they are in the tala without even thinking about it!!
- From: Narayanan (@ 195.224.238.98)
on: Tue Mar 28 08:10:58 EST 2000
Nick:
>>how I envy those who just know where they are in the tala without even thinking about it!!<<
That comes with practise...specially for flutists, where you cannot concentrate on marking beats or clapping hands, the tala has to be running in your memory. It is not the tala that bothers most but it is the "gathi" or tempo which has to be accurate throught the krithi.
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Tue Mar 28 09:51:25 EST 2000
>>"specially for flutists"<< - true for all instrumentalists
well said Narayanan
- From: IR (@ columbo.lifeworks.com)
on: Tue Mar 28 12:08:56 EST 2000
Nado: Spuritham is also considered as a form of gamakkam
- From: Nadopasaka (@ agppp14.buffnet.net)
on: Tue Mar 28 20:40:53 EST 2000
Nick wrote >>>. young students and inexperienced singers can be inaccurate or completely wrong with putting tala <<<
The use of the word 'putting' tala is interesting, no offense Nick. I have heard it many, many times and in more than English too. It is rarely referred to as 'keeping' tala or 'marking' tala. any comments. Thanks
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