Topic started by sandy (@ 203.197.42.84) on Sat Mar 10 03:23:03 .
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I have been a great fan of Ayn Rand and her novels have really fascinated me. Her philosophy of selfishness is really appealing |
Responses:
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- From: Sumithra Bhakthavatsalam (@ ac865316.ipt.aol.com)
on: Sun Jun 17 16:01:57
There is a reason for parents' unconditional love for their children. After much thought, I conclude that it is due to the genetic composition of the child being a product of their's. Each man is attached to what makes HIM, and he is a sum total of all his bio-chemical (genetic) make-up, that's what makes HIM! So to an extent you could call the reason ego, because the off-spring of a person has come from him, if you look at it this way, then Ayn Rand's philosophy would answer it because she feels that the prime mover for anything that happens in the world is man's ego.
- From: stg (@ st54.aramco.com.sa)
on: Mon Jun 18 03:24:49
the reason for the parent's unconditional lover for THEIR children. if that is not selfishness what else is.
- From: stg (@ st54.aramco.com.sa)
on: Mon Jun 18 03:26:25
sorry typo... please read the above message as unconditional love for THEIR
- From: Sumithra (@ lobby12.lib.vt.edu)
on: Mon Jun 18 13:09:24
To Sruthi:
You're all awe for Ayn Rand's definition of love In Atlas Shrugged, Dagny loves (and sleeps with) Hank Rearden and then with John Galt. Is this your idea of love? Just because she found John Galt who she thought was better, she dropped Hank Rearden. Also, let's not forget her first lover, Fransisco D' Anconia. So is this what your idea of lvoe is? What unconditional love with friends were you talkin about? You think AYn Rand's philosophy'd answer that?
Would you drop a Hank Rearden when (if) you find a John Galt?
THe basic tenet of love, being commitmtent itself is lost. So what is it about Rand's idea of love that you cherish so much?
- From: EeeTee (@ 139.85.30.133)
on: Mon Jun 18 19:18:59
Mr. STG:
Well, parents' unconditional love for their children is not selfishness in the pejorative sense that people use to describe in general. It is something expected of them. Every human being is selfish at some level. When people speak of selfishness, they are speaking of a high degree of selfishness. It is obvious where Ayn Rand and her fans stood.
- From: Naveen (@ ac89c608.ipt.aol.com)
on: Mon Jun 18 23:30:48
I saw a film about Ayn Rand. I don't how much of it was based on her life. It portrayed her having an affair with a much younger follower of hers, who is married to a fellow-follower. When he tires of her and starts sleeping with a third (another follower!) and younger woman, she gets rather upset, to put it mildly. And there's Ayn Rand's gallant husband to contend with, as well. The film was interesting in a morbid sense. I don't recommend it. Ayn Rand admirers (I am not one as you know from my earlier post) should avoid it like the plague.
- From: Sruthi (@ 203.197.49.31)
on: Tue Jun 19 02:41:08
ref..to the earlier messageof urs
Sumithra!!
Here's my view on why the concept behind Atlas Shrugged about thinking man being heroic and the mind of the man being the most wonderful thing on earth,as well as the war against the "moochers" is very apt in today's society....
here was a letter I wrote to one of my friends after the admissions for the Freshers in my college got over...(its an engg college and hence freshies are FEs(first year engg)
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the FEs arrived...bechare..their admission was stayed and stayed and stayed..for the most inanest of reasons like some new college opened by Sharad Power so...stay..admissions all over again...then some nice chap decided..he had a doubt..why are there more seats in Bombay and not in Nagpur..so another petition ..stay....then 30% reservation for girls....Proves..u must be careful what u wish for...all these guys were hoooping..let there be abundance of the fairer species....and so now see the net result...50% reservation for backward classes...30% reservation for girls....5%reservation for NRI(management quota..)so net open category..the actual merit seats...15%!!!!
In fact they should call it reservation for merit!
Figures are mind boggling na...ANd imagine if a person has got say 90%..fate sealed...no admission anywhere...(if u r a girl..still some chance..guy..gaya!)Methinks..now parents are gonna be unhappy with a boy baby rather than a girl.i myself fail to understand...30% reservation..that too in aprofessional course!!!Seems engg has lost all its value...professional..kuch nahi...its just another method for a politician to increase his vote bank...
All bakwaaaaaas...in madras there have ben cases of this reserved category doctor operating on the right kidney instead of the left one as he could not understand the x ray properly...if doctors ...teachers and the armed forces begin to ahve reservations...the future of the country is doomed...defi...its no more a question whether u ahv either capacity..or the ability..its need..seems familiar? Never thot this could ahppen in a civilised nation..but it ahs happened...Take tamilnadu...around 75% reservation..a brahmin fella getting 97% ahs no scope of getting into engg and medicine..on the other hand ..58%..non SCST??Come..we give u a plum seat..why ..because...ur ancestors suffered..and u need this seat more than ur much more deserving counterpart....yet...all these people..struggle..try maxing 98..99...in a hope to outwit the system....how long.... seems evident them drifting to places like bbay...has the same evil..to a leseser degreee..or to US..doth not have this evil...every man judged by his merit(that's what they tell u)...but poses hazaar other problems....
It feels bad..our own country epitomising all that is suposed to be loathed...propagating its own doom..who knows...maybe morrow...the motor will stop..how long anyway can this continue...deserving ppl needing to circumvent the same system..designed to help them...u will have doctors not knowing the difference between left and right kidneys...teachers unable to even impart an iota of education..future...sealed..present.....leading steadily to that future.....
Who is John Galt?
*********************************************
She gives words to the feelings which are smouldering.It hurts to see merit not being recognised and the "need" factor being evaluated as all important.
Its not about a man thinking "I'll ahve 12 kids"..
BTW..A rational man who knows what's right and wrong would not take such a step...In fact what u r equating "thinking" is primitive..."Thinking" denotes a person capable,a person willing to work for that piece of bread in society not a person who thinks just because he needs it he can usurp someone else's work and thoughts.
U ahve misconstrued Hank Rearden's say that he wont take the law as binding on him.I cite the same case,hones working people frustrated that even though they have worked for somehting and truly deserve it some idiot just because he was born in some community and supposed to be not "privileged" as u are grabs it from u!
The govt knows this class will take it...They will try to stay in the system,whereas the others will happily enjoy sucking their blood.
Let Atlas Shrug...
PS..Lot of colloquialism is there in the passage before,some words are not in english too...
PPS...I shalldefi get back on the fidelity issue...I ahve my exams going..and am kinda stressed for time...
- From: stg (@ st53.aramco.com.sa)
on: Tue Jun 19 06:43:10
Mr E. T. Agnosticus
You have not put forth ur case for compassion as an essential and fundamental virtue. Why essential? essential for whom? If life is not achievements then what it is.. just dragging and surviving. About rand being a mere novelist you are adopting the same old technique that if one does not see then that thing is not there. Just because u say she is a mere novelist she does not become a mere novelist. She is a philospher of the highest order. In fact her works are startlingly original and that is the reason many people are fascinated. With all sorts of helping the poor, charity, socialism corrupting the minds of the youth, anyone reading her works will definitely wake up and think twice about the moribund ideas floating around. Selfishness is innate in nature.. can't we see that all babies will try to keep things given to them. As long as your selfishness does not interfere others nobody has got any business with you
You say the arguments are deeply flawed.. but I dont yet have the privelege of those flaws.. would you be kind enough to spell it out
Coming to compassion I would like to know that when a very hungry little human comes to what can you compassion do? all you compassion, all you milk of human kindness, all you overflowing mercy, all your sympathy, empathty will have no use.
Mr. EeeTee
You say love for children is expected of the parents? who expects? the public? what is the public? You are right all human beings are selfish. Its natural and one need not be ashamed of it. Its unforturnate that the meaning of selfishness got twisted. It's often confused with self-interest and more so at the expense of others.
- From: stg (@ st55.aramco.com.sa)
on: Tue Jun 19 06:57:56
Sruthi,
You have given the answer yourself. You say the basic tenet of love is committment ( is this a law or something final, anyway I will buy this for now). You talk about committment of love to persons but dagny is fully committed to what she has chosen for values. She is unable to be content with what she thinks as second choice.
Many historical & traditional and a plethora of other factors have forged our mindset so that we find it difficult to accept anything other than 'oruvanukku orithi' concept. We just think that our concept of morality is simply divine and should not be questioned. Just ask a few whys
- From: E. T. Agnosticus (@ user108.216.19.141.dsli.com)
on: Tue Jun 19 09:30:20
Mr. STG:
Rand is "a Philosopher of the highest order" ?? I have such contempt for people who say that. I have usually found it a waste of time to argue with such people. I have at various times in the past dealt with all the questions you pose. There are effective answers. But I have no intention of repeating them in this forum.
What I have found is that people whose accomplishments are rather limited hide their insecurities behind some novelist's hysterical pronouncements. I have no interest in wasting my time further. Especially with people who can't observe what EeeTee means :-)
- From: Sumithra (@ h80ad2b7e.dhcp.vt.edu)
on: Tue Jun 19 10:27:20
I'd talked about Rand's concept of love, which u had apparently talked about over and over again. Now your focus has turned to a whole new direction.
And having 12 kids is still being selfish, if he's able to feed the 12 kids why shouldn't he have them, if he's as selfish as Rand asks people to be, he wouldn't care about the society anyway.
You're calling his thinking crude, or my definition, or whaetevr of thinking as crude for the fact that the person hasn't thought of the social implications of his decisions, and this is the very point I'm trying to put forth- that pure selfishness is a crude thought. Why don't you look at it from a purely Rand perspetive to understand the detriment.
And well, I agree with you that the reservation policy sucks.And Rand's ideas are appropriate in such a situation. And that's the reason I (objectively) say that Rand's philosophy has its good, but it has its rubbish too, and going ga ga over her is pointless.
Don't bother about the non-english words interspersed... I'm an Indian who was brought up in India... :-)
Good Luck on your exams!
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